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idea for an MT threat spec...

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idea for an MT threat spec...

Postby Sammuel » Sat May 10, 2008 4:27 pm

ive been toying with ways to get more threat out of my gear i have. I have a decent threat set but when i put my tanking set on i drop some threat and was trying to think of a way to keep it close. I came up with this idea and figured id as the pally tanking community about what they think. I am the MT for our guild.. have MT gruuls/HK/Mags and first 4 bosses of ZA. This mainly comes from an idea to let my dpsers go all out and try to make the 4th timer in ZA. if its a newb idea just say so lol.... But my gear is good enough to be uncrushable without precision AND still have around 25% dodge with a little over 20% block..... here is the spec....

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVVZVhuIx0zrtqtV

tell me what you think... i can take it lol
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Postby Marsha » Sat May 10, 2008 5:21 pm

I'm currently spec'd the standard 0/49/12 prot spec but I have a rogue asking me why I can't change to this spec'

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhtIx0zzgqZVfx0bcz

saying he sees a lot of raiding Protection Paladins using this spec.

This was why he was asking for it is as follows"

Realistically Avenger's Shield does nothing after the initial pull and this spec provides:

3% crit to the raid (thats 64.7dps per rogue, not sure how much for everyone else)
13% more threat when tanking
2% spell resistance (I suppose that'll make up for some prot talents losted)


He also maintains we gain zero benefit from expertise.

I'd love to see some specific info posted here to help me educate him.
Last edited by Marsha on Sat May 10, 2008 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: idea for an MT threat spec...

Postby Zeels » Sat May 10, 2008 5:31 pm

Sammuel wrote:ive been toying with ways to get more threat out of my gear i have. I have a decent threat set but when i put my tanking set on i drop some threat and was trying to think of a way to keep it close. I came up with this idea and figured id as the pally tanking community about what they think. I am the MT for our guild.. have MT gruuls/HK/Mags and first 4 bosses of ZA. This mainly comes from an idea to let my dpsers go all out and try to make the 4th timer in ZA. if its a newb idea just say so lol.... But my gear is good enough to be uncrushable without precision AND still have around 25% dodge with a little over 20% block..... here is the spec....

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVVZVhuIx0zrtqtV

tell me what you think... i can take it lol


0 points deflection, mt spec => Fail
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Postby Sammuel » Sat May 10, 2008 5:51 pm

id agree but alot of my gear makes up for it and even without deflection i would have higher avoidance then i see alot of people on here have. As for marsha... Weapons expertise also adds stamina which is essential to a pally.. it is very hard to get stamina and keep sd and avoidance. as for avengers shield it is a HUGE threat spike for when you pull..it allows dps to imediately go all out.. thats why my guildies love it when i tank vs our warrior or druid just ask your rogue if he would prefer to w8 a couple seconds b4 he could go all out.. :)
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Re: idea for an MT threat spec...

Postby Sammuel » Sat May 10, 2008 6:09 pm

Zeels wrote:
Sammuel wrote:ive been toying with ways to get more threat out of my gear i have. I have a decent threat set but when i put my tanking set on i drop some threat and was trying to think of a way to keep it close. I came up with this idea and figured id as the pally tanking community about what they think. I am the MT for our guild.. have MT gruuls/HK/Mags and first 4 bosses of ZA. This mainly comes from an idea to let my dpsers go all out and try to make the 4th timer in ZA. if its a newb idea just say so lol.... But my gear is good enough to be uncrushable without precision AND still have around 25% dodge with a little over 20% block..... here is the spec....

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVVZVhuIx0zrtqtV

tell me what you think... i can take it lol


0 points deflection, mt spec => Fail


ok well i was hoping for a little more reasoning behind why it is a fail lol... right now im around 19% PARRY... dropping it would put me to around where you are... a little over 15%.... when i look at wws my parry only takes effect less then 10% of the time at times... so guess i dont see the big hit.. but if someone would please explain why it is a big hit or =>fail that would be awesome :)
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Re: idea for an MT threat spec...

Postby moduspwnens » Sat May 10, 2008 10:47 pm

Sammuel wrote:ok well i was hoping for a little more reasoning behind why it is a fail lol... right now im around 19% PARRY... dropping it would put me to around where you are... a little over 15%.... when i look at wws my parry only takes effect less then 10% of the time at times... so guess i dont see the big hit.. but if someone would please explain why it is a big hit or =>fail that would be awesome :)


Well, 5% Parry is a big deal for a MT role. Firstly, any normal Prot warrior will have it, so not picking it up is taking one step in the wrong direction versus warriors. That's also a 5% chance to take no damage, which makes up a lot of damage removal. I can't see a reason ever to drop it.

Heck, I'd put another five talent points in for another five percent parry if I could.
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Postby Extremity » Sun May 11, 2008 12:57 am

This is my build:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVbtIx0zMgoxVfx0bcz

Avengers Shield is very situational. The only time I miss it is in 5 mans.

So far with this build I have:

-Main tanked 5 bear runs in ZA
-Performed some tanking roll (offtank or MT) for every boss in BT except for Illidan (I heal)
-Tanked every hyjal wave, some bosses

I have no problems with this build and the threat boost is a very welcome addition. Some people freak out that I don't have Ardent Defender. Unfortunately I feel our prot tree is too bloated and at this point in the game I would rather have more threat than a very very very situational "save me" move that might or might not actually prevent a death. Maybe it's just me but my healers are good enough that I rarely saw it proc based on the Tankadin addon I have installed even when I was specced into it.
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Postby Minn » Sun May 11, 2008 1:45 am

He also maintains we gain zero benefit from expertise.


This should set off a few alarms. Dodged and parried attacks generate no threat. Expertise reduces the chance that our attacks are dodged or parried. This is especially important for tanks, who do not get the benefit of standing behind most bosses, where parries don't happen. More hits mean more threat. Weapon Expertise is an excellent talent, providing both threat and 10% extra stamina.
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Re: idea for an MT threat spec...

Postby Zeels » Sun May 11, 2008 2:00 am

Sammuel wrote:
Zeels wrote:
Sammuel wrote:ive been toying with ways to get more threat out of my gear i have. I have a decent threat set but when i put my tanking set on i drop some threat and was trying to think of a way to keep it close. I came up with this idea and figured id as the pally tanking community about what they think. I am the MT for our guild.. have MT gruuls/HK/Mags and first 4 bosses of ZA. This mainly comes from an idea to let my dpsers go all out and try to make the 4th timer in ZA. if its a newb idea just say so lol.... But my gear is good enough to be uncrushable without precision AND still have around 25% dodge with a little over 20% block..... here is the spec....

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVVZVhuIx0zrtqtV

tell me what you think... i can take it lol


0 points deflection, mt spec => Fail


ok well i was hoping for a little more reasoning behind why it is a fail lol... right now im around 19% PARRY... dropping it would put me to around where you are... a little over 15%.... when i look at wws my parry only takes effect less then 10% of the time at times... so guess i dont see the big hit.. but if someone would please explain why it is a big hit or =>fail that would be awesome :)


I'm sorry for my short response, was a bit drunk as well :)

Basically it's just what moduspwnens said, you'll miss out on 5% pure avoidance of the best sort (parry = more threat for you when it happens).
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Postby Songblade » Sun May 11, 2008 9:08 am

Sammuel, the main problem is the fact that you put the points into holy...

You have Divine Intellect, which is alright, but it's not all that great, because if you think about it, our mana is very relative, since our mana regen is based on the amount of damage we take. The only thing this talent will give you, is more longevity while farming, and a little more mana to START with while tanking a boss.

Improved Seal of Righteousness. This is useful, I'll give it that, but there is a talent in the ret tree that if used right, increases the damage from Judgement of Righteousness by 20% (10 second cooldown reduced to 8 seconds).

I would recommend taking those points out of the holy tree and putting them into Deflection and Improved Judgement. As for the other 3 points, I put them into Pursuit of Justice, but I would recommend you finish up Improved Holy Shield first.
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Postby Levantine » Sun May 11, 2008 9:32 am

Pretty much what Songblade said. Divine Intellect is bad. Improved SoR is bad. Imp Judgement and Deflection is good. There's a reason for the cookie cutter specs.
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Postby Levantine » Sun May 11, 2008 9:35 am

Marsha wrote:I'm currently spec'd the standard 0/49/12 prot spec but I have a rogue asking me why I can't change to this spec'

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhtIx0zzgqZVfx0bcz

saying he sees a lot of raiding Protection Paladins using this spec.

This was why he was asking for it is as follows"

Realistically Avenger's Shield does nothing after the initial pull and this spec provides:

3% crit to the raid (thats 64.7dps per rogue, not sure how much for everyone else)
13% more threat when tanking
2% spell resistance (I suppose that'll make up for some prot talents losted)


He also maintains we gain zero benefit from expertise.

I'd love to see some specific info posted here to help me educate him.


That's a terribad awful craptacular spec. Missing out on 13% stamina and 5 Expertise...... If the insane amounts of HP that you'll lose aren't enough to convince the rogue, then he needs to learn to stop sucking.
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Postby Songblade » Sun May 11, 2008 10:15 am

Granted, for the cookie cutter specs, there is some room for flexibility based on preference, but you are losing way too much by defecting from the spec by that much.

However, I have noticed that Worldi, t6 prot pally, has Sanctity Aura in his/her build. I figure if he/she has that at t6 level, he/she must be doing something right... But I'm guessing that he/she is not an MT.
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Postby Sammuel » Sun May 11, 2008 10:28 am

i appreciate all your guys input.. i have not used this spec yet because of the fact i wanted to get others opinions on it.. right now im a 50-10 build. as for improved judgement i have runn wws with that spec and without it...maybe im not good enough for the rotations but reckoning upped my tps quite alot vs improved judge. I just was reading alot how avoidance is situational and since i barely see parry do anything i figured it might be worth it to get some more threat. I do quite well on threat right now but as my guild moves forward i know its harder and harder to keep that gap so was trying to be creative in adding more threat. Thanx for the input guys and gals (dont wanna seem sexist) lol :).. oh yeah here is a link to my char

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &n=Sammuel
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Postby Levantine » Sun May 11, 2008 10:29 am

Worldie is missing out on Ardent Defender, that's it. S/He's kept pretty much everything else, and s/he CERTAINLY didn't throw away 13% of our 116% Stamina modifier and 5 free Expertise, which is our second best threat stat next to Spelldamage.

If I were in the position where I was being forced to take Sanctity Aura it'd be with this spec:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhxIx0zMgoxVsx0hcz

Possibly swapping Precision for 3/5 Reckoning.
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