Remove Advertisements

Tanks have feelings too

How to get started.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Postby Lore » Mon May 12, 2008 1:30 pm

Things obviously differ from guild to guild, but we don't allow anyone to repair for anything other than raids.
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Postby Morpheren » Mon May 12, 2008 1:32 pm

uke wrote:This is going to sound harsh and mean, but I feel it's necessary...

If you want to be a tank, you need to have a backbone.

Attitude is everything. If you walk into a pug and say "I suck at tanking", guess what, you're going to suck!

A tank is at the heart and center of a group. The hub in the wheel. The complete center of focus that a group revolves around. Success or failure depends on your ability to confidently keep the nasties beating on you and surviving.

It is *not* a role that is suitable for self-flagellating wimps with no confidence. It *is* a role for people who are willing to continually get the crap kicked out of them, and can do it over and over again with a smile until they eventually succeed.

If you want to be a tank, you have to have the confidence, almost bordering on arrogance, in order to be successful. Period.


The Psychology of a Tank [/shameless plug]
whatisboom.com - Two parts rocket fuel, one part genius.
Chef Koriel, Guild Master of Fury Untold on Sen'jin
Image
User avatar
Morpheren
 
Posts: 939
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Postby Discus » Tue May 13, 2008 2:21 am

"It is *not* a role that is suitable for self-flagellating wimps with no confidence. It *is* a role for people who are willing to continually get the crap kicked out of them, and can do it over and over again with a smile until they eventually succeed.

If you want to be a tank, you have to have the confidence, almost bordering on arrogance, in order to be successful. Period."



I'm old fashioned and still believe in modesty and politeness. In my experience the most proficient at anything are modest. The arrogant egotists are almost always compensating for inadequacies. Unfortunately the internet seems to encourage these desk top despots.
Last edited by Discus on Tue May 13, 2008 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Discus
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:28 am

Postby Levantine » Tue May 13, 2008 2:25 am

Discus wrote:I'm old fashioned and still believe in modesty and politeness. In my experience the most proficient at anything are modest. The arrogant egotists are almost always compensating for inadequacies.


I'm in e-love with you.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10817
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Postby Discus » Tue May 13, 2008 2:28 am

Stoppit you'll make my head swell!
Discus
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:28 am

Postby Levantine » Tue May 13, 2008 2:41 am

There seems to be an attitude with some of the members on this board that insists you have to be an arrogant douche to be a good tank, it's incredibly refreshing to see someone that has the same mindset as myself.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10817
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Postby Tyaera » Tue May 13, 2008 6:22 am

there is a difference between not talking yourself up, which is good, and actively talking yourself down.

They're not saying go into a group and say "k guys u can relax coz im amazing".

They're saying dont go into a group and say "i suck".

what you need to be is quietly confident. don't talk yourself up, don't talk yourself down. Just do your job and then hearth.
better to tank in hell than DPS in heaven
Image
User avatar
Tyaera
 
Posts: 730
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: sneaking through minefields

Postby Lore » Tue May 13, 2008 7:00 am

Levantine wrote:There seems to be an attitude with some of the members on this board that insists you have to be an arrogant douche to be a good tank, it's incredibly refreshing to see someone that has the same mindset as myself.


So what you're saying is you're a horrible tank?


OHHH BURN
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Postby sweeney » Tue May 13, 2008 7:06 am

Good God, you guys gave me a flashback to college, sitting around explaining "how to meet girls" to my friends. :)

Arrogance != Confidence. You can be a relaxed, confident leader and still lead. In fact, it works better that way.

But if you don't lead the group as the tank, then the loudest or least willing to listen person is going to lead, and you're a lot less likely to get the instance done if they don't know WTF they're talking about.
Sweeney: 80 Paladin, Runetotem
sweeney
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:15 pm

Postby Frickit » Tue May 13, 2008 7:35 am

Sweeney wrote:Good God, you guys gave me a flashback to college, sitting around explaining "how to meet girls" to my friends. :)

Arrogance != Confidence. You can be a relaxed, confident leader and still lead. In fact, it works better that way.

But if you don't lead the group as the tank, then the loudest or least willing to listen person is going to lead, and you're a lot less likely to get the instance done if they don't know WTF they're talking about.


We've actually been measuring this...we gain a substantial increase in healing done and dps when our raid leader acts like an ass and yells and gets mad. When he doesnt it falls. Every time.
Image
Frickit
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:34 pm

Postby uke » Tue May 13, 2008 7:38 am

Sweeney wrote:Good God, you guys gave me a flashback to college, sitting around explaining "how to meet girls" to my friends. :)

Arrogance != Confidence. You can be a relaxed, confident leader and still lead. In fact, it works better that way.

But if you don't lead the group as the tank, then the loudest or least willing to listen person is going to lead, and you're a lot less likely to get the instance done if they don't know WTF they're talking about.


Thank you, that's what I'm trying to say.

Some people here think that being confident is the same as being arrogant, as if there's only two mindsets possible: being a arrogant butthole or being a self-defeating wimp.

No! It is entirely possible to be confident (maybe with a little bit of swagger) without coming across being an arrogant jerk.

This is REQUIRED in order to be a successful tank.

I do know, that continually telling yourself and other people that you suck is not a favorable outcome, as the OP has experienced.

But please do not come on here and say that any hint of confidence in your ability to tank something is the same as being a jerk. Such comments are usually said by the same people that post "I'm a really passive, timid person. Why does no one want me to tank for them?"

Different mindsets are suited to different jobs. Tanking is not for the timid.

Like I said in my first post, you need to grow a spine if you want to be successful. You can do it without being an arrogant, pompous jerk, but you MUST have confidence in yourself, or you will fail, plain and simple. This fact applies to real life as well. Accusing people of being arrogant jerks does not change that simple fact.
uke
 
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:23 am

Postby Ariashley » Tue May 13, 2008 9:13 am

The tank does not always have to be the raid leader or party leader. But the tank DOES need to be confident in their ability to tank and the party leader (if not the tank) has to understand how paladin tanks work and mark targets appropriately. Also, the tank needs to be able to identify problems with what people are doing or with the marking, have things (buttons/macros) set-up to keep people alive if something doesn't go as planned exactly and be aware of the current situation. Passively following a group around and expecting everything will go well is a bad idea.

Personally, I like to know the instance before I tank it and often will take a quick refresh on wowwiki or here to remind myself of the trash and bosses and pulls and strategies. If people ask me to tank something on heroic that I haven't tanked on regular, I let them know that I'm not very familiar with the instance and haven't tanked it. I might be willing to give it a shot if I have been there plenty on my rogue, I know most or all of the people in the party, and people agree not to whine if they die due to me NOT remembering what to expect.

In my rogue's guild, our MT is not the raid leader. However, our MT is aware of what's going on and provides input if the raid leader is getting something wrong for him and the MT will speak up if someone needs to move or if someone really messes up something (like leaving totems at the top of the hill for Hyjal trash).

However, it is not required that a tank be an ego maniac or an arrogant jerk. Just aware, confident in their ability, communcative and reasonably assertive. Timid people who will not tell people they're making an error or go-with-the-flow people who just want people to tell them what to do should not be tanking anything ever. There is a druid tank like that in my paladin's guild. He makes me crazy. He just wants me to tell him what to do and puts in no effort to know a fight or boss or anything.
Ariashala - Level 70 Tankadin
Ariashley - Level 70 Rogue
Image
Ariashley
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:26 pm

Postby Solessa » Tue May 13, 2008 9:47 am

As long as you know what you are doing....which is why you come here and read up...and practice...I think you get a nature confidence from that...

That being said people express it in different ways...

I always mock our MT mercilessly about how much better I am then him...and when I mess up I never hear the end of it...that being said,

I feel that you have to have confidence in what you are doing...but as long as you are honest in what you say and not cruel, its a game. Personally, most of my WoW personality is an act...its a chance to be outrageous and not care...cuz its a game. I know I am the best damned paladin on the server...and if anyone questions it I will pull 30 mobs then bubblehearth ...j/k

But seriously, I do get offended when people doubt my abilities..but i also know my limits and will let others know them too...does that make me arrogant than fine...I am arrogant, but do you want me on your team...if you don't your wrong
Image
Pally Tanking...all the work, half the respect, twice the insults.
Solessa
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:26 pm

Postby Lt Smith » Tue May 13, 2008 4:40 pm

Like the OP here, I'm still learning how to Tank (and how to be a good Pally too). After 60 or so levels our guild has begun to form and do instances. We're a LONG way from the ones I read on here - We did Strat last night just because.

I go in quietly and just play my part in the group. I had Recount running last night for the first time, and noticed my damage was less than that of the pet and minion. Ok... admittedly I was the healer, but still. So, as we were walking back through the skellys I jumped in and said "Heal me, I'm going in!" The group froze for a second (like I said, I was the healer) and joined me on the last skelly there.

I resumed my role as a healer after that but with a bit more respect. While I certainly wouldn't recommend this tactic in a "real" instance. It was fun to be confident/arrogant for a couple minutes.
Image
Lt Smith
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 4:16 pm

Postby sunburst » Wed May 14, 2008 1:37 am

Oh, I can feel your pain! On my server people are extremely conservative, all they want is a T6 warrior. Tankadins are nearly non-existant, and those who are specced prot are securely locked inside their respective guild vaults. I have a tingling feeling I'm the only one tankadin who roams "a free range". You know, if I get a copper every time I hear "Paladins cant tank" remark I'd hit in-game gold limit. Twice.

I had to endure all sorts of crap - people leaving my group because they didnt want me as a tank, people eek'ing at my gear, my markings, my pulls, my choice of blessings, just everything. Nonetheless I kept tanking, I knew this was a thing for me, and I kept reading about successful tankadins. Now I'm proud to say most of the times I get "Can we run another heroic please" response after the instance, so - it's all in your hands.

Of course it takes time, practice and healthy dose of self-criticism to hone your skills. I dont have much time on hands to play, I mostly play on weekends with occasional questing during work days. You dont have to be hardcore to be a good tank, believe me. There are plenty of great guides and movies around to let you know what you'll be dealing with.

At first I felt quite uncomfortable in "high-end" 5men, so I retreated back to lower-level instances. Yup, Ramparts... Coilfang... Auchindon... At level 70 I had a larger margin for errors there and could safely learn all know-how's and how-to's, what mobs do what tricks, what kind of CC I want and where, and so on and so forth.

Once I learned all normal instances inside and out I moved to heroics. There the troubles began again - with people attitudes. Wierd, but at times I had to tuck my fluffy nature deep inside, make scary face and just say "Leave the group or shut up and do what I say". Practical knowledge of normal instances paid off A LOT.

It is really an amazing feeling to be on a frontline of a combat, I wont trade it for... mmm... slapping big boss behind with some kind of an ironing board :roll:
User avatar
sunburst
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 12:48 am

PreviousNext

Return to Basic Training & Talents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest