PoJ vs Boar's Speed

How to get started.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Postby Endus » Thu May 08, 2008 10:57 am

Dorvan wrote:
Mithrumil wrote:
Worldie wrote:For sure not.


Those points may find themselves in something random then :D


Any PoJ talnet spec is going to be lacking points in some useful talent....likely Spell Warding or Precision. The main reason I rain on PoJ is *precisely* because there are other very useful things you could be getting instead.


I've got 3/3 PoJ, 1/2 Spell Warding, and 3/3 Precision.

No points in Reckoning.

I frankly don't need the threat. I'm topping out in T4 content, just moving to T5 now, so that may easily change in time, but right now, I've got no problem holding threat over our best DPS, without Reckoning.

As for Spell Warding vs PoJ, Spell Warding DOES provide more damage reduction over time. However, PoJ also works on non-damage spells. Having a fear miss, or Shade's Polymorph (both of which i've seen) can big a big help (with Shade, it let me switch to Fire resist aura before the Pyroblast).

I've also got BoK, and if we have enough paladins reliably with Kings, I'll switch that talent point over into 2/2 Spell Warding. If I get to the point where my threat starts to drag, then I'll consider switching to a Reckoning spec and dropping my avoidance, but right now, me not dying is more important. So, Spell Warding/PoJ.
Image
Endus
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:30 am

Postby MichaelBerea » Thu May 08, 2008 2:50 pm

It looks like I am the only person considering this so please set me straight.

If you happen to want PoJ and SW, why not take 2 points out of Ardent Defender? The difference is 12% damage if you are below 35% health.

As my current guild is pushing hard into new content I plan on getting 5/5 AD back now. I can see it being important for "Oh crap the MT died on a trash pull!" situations.
But for a long time I was never low on health and having 3/5 AD seemed just fine as a safety net in case a healer spaced out or had temporary pushback.
MichaelBerea
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:19 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Postby Songblade » Sun May 11, 2008 8:49 am

Mitton wrote:
Songblade wrote:Here's the way I see it.

Because I want to... enough said.

That is all the justification I need.


peppah, there's a much better 3 point talent sitting right above it in the ret tree.

give the raid 3% more crit = more deeps for you and them



I realize that, and it may be better, but it doesn't give me a 15% run speed increase, now does it?
Image

[Insert witty comment here]
User avatar
Songblade
 
Posts: 552
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Interdimensional Limbo

Postby Mitton » Sun May 11, 2008 4:17 pm

Songblade wrote:
Mitton wrote:
Songblade wrote:Here's the way I see it.

Because I want to... enough said.

That is all the justification I need.


peppah, there's a much better 3 point talent sitting right above it in the ret tree.

give the raid 3% more crit = more deeps for you and them



I realize that, and it may be better, but it doesn't give me a 15% run speed increase, now does it?


heh, you're a winner

and you left awaken?
Nothing says pallatank like ADD!

Image
Image Image
Mitton
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:46 am

Postby Songblade » Sun May 11, 2008 4:48 pm

Nah, they kicked me out because I stood up to Mal one day when she was being irresponsible (to put it nicely).
Image

[Insert witty comment here]
User avatar
Songblade
 
Posts: 552
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Interdimensional Limbo

Postby Mitton » Sun May 11, 2008 7:22 pm

well i'm glad someone stood up to her being a neo-nazi

that's basically why i left :(
Nothing says pallatank like ADD!

Image
Image Image
Mitton
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:46 am

Postby Songblade » Sun May 11, 2008 10:14 pm

Yeah well, suffice it to say I'm just a little vindictive about it (I mean, she did take away my guild, that I was the co-leader of, as well as turning the guild against me, taking away all my friends), I really hope the guild fails horribly and breaks up, so maybe some people will realize how she is and even more so, realize that how she made me look to them is a complete and utter lie...

I only regret not realizing it before...

And not taking the technical title "Guild Master" for myself...
Image

[Insert witty comment here]
User avatar
Songblade
 
Posts: 552
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Interdimensional Limbo

Postby Karathos » Thu May 29, 2008 6:26 am

Worldie wrote:...
PoJ is lovely to have and very noticeable run speed boost. I won't live without :)


PoJ is (even more so than the running speed bonus) a survival talent. (Think of PoJ being like adding additional +miss to your current +miss but specifically for spells.)

As my guild (and many others as well) move towards clearing out MH and BT and move towards Sunwell (with new challenges such as the -20% dodge and the +5% to hit for the NPC's)

Do other guilds who do not have a raiding retribution paladin feel that dropping PoJ in favor of Improved Seal of the Crusader (for a primary member of the guild tanking core) is a viable option/alternative?

Except when I am working directly at attempting to generate personal threat on an NPC (OT on Gurtogg and Supremus and some trash pulls come to mind ...) I tend to end up Judging wisdom for the overall mana return for the ranged spell caster dps (and hunters).

So, my question would boil down to the following:
Does the (situational) 3% crit chance increase from Imp JotC outweigh the sustained DPS benefit of JoW at the expense of the survival benefit of PoJ for a primary member of the tanking core in a progression guild when completing BT and gearing towards Sunwell? Or does the survival benefit of 3% spell miss for one of the tanking core outweigh the situational benefit to the raid as a whole of +3% crit.

Any thoughts?
Karathos
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: Lothar

Postby Caelus » Thu May 29, 2008 7:00 am

Karathos wrote:
Worldie wrote:...
PoJ is lovely to have and very noticeable run speed boost. I won't live without :)


PoJ is (even more so than the running speed bonus) a survival talent. (Think of PoJ being like adding additional +miss to your current +miss but specifically for spells.)

As my guild (and many others as well) move towards clearing out MH and BT and move towards Sunwell (with new challenges such as the -20% dodge and the +5% to hit for the NPC's)

Do other guilds who do not have a raiding retribution paladin feel that dropping PoJ in favor of Improved Seal of the Crusader (for a primary member of the guild tanking core) is a viable option/alternative?

Except when I am working directly at attempting to generate personal threat on an NPC (OT on Gurtogg and Supremus and some trash pulls come to mind ...) I tend to end up Judging wisdom for the overall mana return for the ranged spell caster dps (and hunters).

So, my question would boil down to the following:
Does the (situational) 3% crit chance increase from Imp JotC outweigh the sustained DPS benefit of JoW at the expense of the survival benefit of PoJ for a primary member of the tanking core in a progression guild when completing BT and gearing towards Sunwell? Or does the survival benefit of 3% spell miss for one of the tanking core outweigh the situational benefit to the raid as a whole of +3% crit.

Any thoughts?


This assumes Holy Pallies fail at keeping JoW up. I know there are a lot of bad ones out there, but when I am holy I spec Imp SotC and keep it up 100% of the time. Ofcourse I can do the same with JoW.

With that in mind, do YOU need to keep JoW up? Sucks if that is so, because so much more can be achieved if your Holy Pally simply does JoW. Not only do the raid get Imp SotC Bonus from you, you also get extra threat gen by default.
Image
Caelus
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:20 am

Postby StopPokingMe » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:38 pm

I ran into the same issue too. Just crafted the Boots of the Protector and threw boar's speed on it, thx for the post for the run speed increase numbers, it made the choice easy. Man I love these boots!!!!!
Image
User avatar
StopPokingMe
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby Aerfalle » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:11 pm

I have +12 stamina enchant and 0/3 PoJ. And I'm sad. :(
Image
Image
User avatar
Aerfalle
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:09 pm

Postby Nottebella » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:57 am

PoJ is extremely underrated as a threat stat. There's a lot of theory on the value of Boar's Speed as a dps stat, the same applies to PoJ. Personally I think of PoJ in the same way as expertise, it doesn't actually give you any threat, but it helps make sure you are actually getting close to your maximum theoretical threat. Plus, it's fun. And it's very noticeably faster than Boar's Speed.
Nottebella - 70 - Argent Dawn
Nottebella
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:57 am

Postby Frickit » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:16 am

Aerfalle wrote:I have +12 stamina enchant and 0/3 PoJ. And I'm sad. :(


slow and sad
Image
Frickit
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:34 pm

Previous

Return to Basic Training & Talents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest