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PoJ vs Boar's Speed

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Postby Worldie » Mon May 05, 2008 6:25 pm

Boar speed is 8% run speed, plain and simple.

PoJ is lovely to have and very noticeable run speed boost. I won't live without :)
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Postby Madmordigan » Tue May 06, 2008 9:21 am

I personally prefer

3/3 in precision

0/1 in BoK (it's a holy talent, right? I mean all those imp conc aura paladins always snag in on the way)

0/2 in SW and

3/3 in PoJ.

Along with the rest of the usual talents.

Why not just get boar's speed? Cause 7% is *VERY* noticeable, and at the time I really settled on this spec, we were downing vashj and kt and starting Hyjal. Lots of movement heavy stuff made it worth it.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Tue May 06, 2008 9:53 am

I'm a big supporter of PoJ, but it's not for everyone and it doesn't suit every raid. Your need for it may also vary with the content you're doing.

T4? Not necessary.
Late T5? Very helpful on Kael and Vashj (Kael's room is farking huge, as is Vashj's platform).
Early-mid T6? Extremely helpful, especially if your guild is just getting a handle on MH. It's nice on Supremus as well, but hardly necessary.

Late T6? Not quite as useful.

I have 3/3 PoJ and 3/5 Reck, stealing points from Precision, Imp Judge, Parry, Kings, and Spell Warding. Heading into Illidan, I'm thinking of speccing out of PoJ to put points into SW.
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Postby masterkiller » Tue May 06, 2008 12:16 pm

Worldie wrote:Boar speed is 8% run speed, plain and simple.

PoJ is lovely to have and very noticeable run speed boost. I won't live without :)


Agreed I'm addicted to it. When people want to ask me why of course I say "3% spell resist" when in fact I'm saying "So I can run faster then you." ;)

In all seriousness I have used it for quite awhile and it is nice when fighting bosses with spell damage. That can be used at any progression level.
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Postby Dorvan » Tue May 06, 2008 12:54 pm

Mithrumil wrote:
Worldie wrote:For sure not.


Those points may find themselves in something random then :D


Any PoJ talnet spec is going to be lacking points in some useful talent....likely Spell Warding or Precision. The main reason I rain on PoJ is *precisely* because there are other very useful things you could be getting instead.
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Postby Baelor » Tue May 06, 2008 1:42 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Mithrumil wrote:
Worldie wrote:For sure not.


Those points may find themselves in something random then :D


Any PoJ talnet spec is going to be lacking points in some useful talent....likely Spell Warding or Precision. The main reason I rain on PoJ is *precisely* because there are other very useful things you could be getting instead.

I'm with Dorvan on this one. The extra run speed is not worth losing either threat or damage reduction, to me. "But Baelor, 3% extra spell miss is damage reduction sorta kinda!" Spell Warding is 4% *reduction*, PoJ is 3% *avoidance*. 4% > 3%, and reduction (to me) > avoidance. The other popular option is Precision points for PoJ, and in that regard you're giving up 3% melee hit and 3% spell hit. That is a lot of +hit.
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Postby Frickit » Tue May 06, 2008 1:42 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Mithrumil wrote:
Worldie wrote:For sure not.


Those points may find themselves in something random then :D


Any PoJ talnet spec is going to be lacking points in some useful talent....likely Spell Warding or Precision. The main reason I rain on PoJ is *precisely* because there are other very useful things you could be getting instead.


I used to not agree and now I do, except I think if you can drop imp judgements and kings PoJ would be a good alternative and even then id prolly put the 3 points in reckoning. I do not think its a good alternative to sw or percision whatsoever.
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Postby Morpheren » Wed May 07, 2008 9:23 am

I recently specced 0/47/14 taking the points from SW and 1 from imp judgement. I dont notice a difference in the run speed, and the onyl time i really notice a run speed increase at all is when i'm running beside somebody without the enchant/talent.

I will probably spec back into SW (as I prefer mitigation vs avoidance), as i'm heading into illidan, and possibly drop that last extra point into something even more retarded.
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Postby masterkiller » Wed May 07, 2008 11:54 am

Dorvan wrote:
Mithrumil wrote:
Worldie wrote:For sure not.


Those points may find themselves in something random then :D


Any PoJ talnet spec is going to be lacking points in some useful talent....likely Spell Warding or Precision. The main reason I rain on PoJ is *precisely* because there are other very useful things you could be getting instead.


http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000

I'm not sure if I can link that here or not but that is my cookie cutter for all around tanking. Im not missing any mitigation talents with the exception of Imp Dev aura. This build is actually very survivability oriented.

As we all know playstyle and raid make up means there is no definitive answer on most situations. My playstyle I talent for survivability and alter my gear or party composition for threat.

I think there are plenty of fights where 3% spell resist can result in a good amount of damage avoidance. Top that with 10% spell damage reduction (Imp RF and Spell Warding) and we have decent spell damage survivability. If you are not dealing with spell damage bosses/trash and don't care for run speed then dont spec for it. For instance if you are working on Gruul, you dont need to run fast and it is all phsyical damage. If you are tanking Vashj, the 15% run speed is awesome here for chasing nagas. If you are tanking Kaz'rogal the 3% spell resist has resisted many marks.
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Postby Morpheren » Wed May 07, 2008 12:07 pm

masterkiller wrote:If you are tanking Kaz'rogal the 3% spell resist has resisted many marks.


I do have to say that last night (the first time I've had PoJ in Hyjal), I did resist approximately 4 marks during that fight.

Fluke, maybe, but it was still nice.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed May 07, 2008 4:27 pm

masterkiller wrote:
Dorvan wrote:
Mithrumil wrote:
Worldie wrote:For sure not.


Those points may find themselves in something random then :D


Any PoJ talnet spec is going to be lacking points in some useful talent....likely Spell Warding or Precision. The main reason I rain on PoJ is *precisely* because there are other very useful things you could be getting instead.


http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000

I'm not sure if I can link that here or not but that is my cookie cutter for all around tanking. Im not missing any mitigation talents with the exception of Imp Dev aura. This build is actually very survivability oriented.

As we all know playstyle and raid make up means there is no definitive answer on most situations. My playstyle I talent for survivability and alter my gear or party composition for threat.

I think there are plenty of fights where 3% spell resist can result in a good amount of damage avoidance. Top that with 10% spell damage reduction (Imp RF and Spell Warding) and we have decent spell damage survivability. If you are not dealing with spell damage bosses/trash and don't care for run speed then dont spec for it. For instance if you are working on Gruul, you dont need to run fast and it is all phsyical damage. If you are tanking Vashj, the 15% run speed is awesome here for chasing nagas. If you are tanking Kaz'rogal the 3% spell resist has resisted many marks.


Now take the same build, drop PoJ, and pick up 3/5 reckoning. You've affected your survivability very little, (loss of 3 stam and 3% spell miss), while increasing your threat a good 5% or so. On Kaz there are only what? 7 or 8 marks per fight? That means PoJ saves you from 1 mark every 4 kills or so....if that resist is a real difference maker, once every 4 attempts isn't nearly reliable enough for you to be tanking the fight in the first place.

115% run speed vs. 108% seems very hard to justify in practice....that saves you about 1 second of run time for every 16 seconds you spend running, and there are relatively few situations that will have you running 15 seconds at a time....taking your Vashj example, I never had to run more than *maybe* 4 seconds in any direction to get a naga in taunt range....once it's taunted the run speed doesn't matter.
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Postby masterkiller » Thu May 08, 2008 9:01 am

When we did Vashj I was constantly running all of phase 2. Inbetween Naga taunts I was assisting with tainteds, stunning striders, healing, passing cores etc. If you are running for 4 seconds when a Naga spawns that is 250ms and can make a difference in taunt reaction. Or getting to a Strider and stunning it can make a difference. Same with Kael where you can have long travel times say between being a conflag OT to getting back to engineer. Some fights it can make small differences. Now will the difference between 8% run speed and 15% run speed make as much of a difference as 0 to 15%? Obviously not but when you factor in a 3% spell miss it can be appetizing.

I think either route is fine, I'm not a fan of reckoning personally, but to those that are go for boot enchant and reckoning. Those that aren't go for PoJ.
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Postby Songblade » Thu May 08, 2008 10:13 am

Here's the way I see it.

Pursuit of Justice is fun, I get to run faster. It will always be in my talents, no matter what.

3% spell avoidance, awesome, but I couldn't care less, if I wanted so badly to reduce the spell damage I take, I would take spell warding.

So all in all, here is why I take Pursuit of Justice...

*Drum Roll*
*Cue the curtains*
*Suspense*

Because I want to... enough said.

That is all the justification I need.
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Postby Mitton » Thu May 08, 2008 10:32 am

Songblade wrote:Here's the way I see it.

Because I want to... enough said.

That is all the justification I need.


peppah, there's a much better 3 point talent sitting right above it in the ret tree.

give the raid 3% more crit = more deeps for you and them
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Postby fuzzygeek » Thu May 08, 2008 10:36 am

masterkiller wrote:I think either route is fine, I'm not a fan of reckoning personally, but to those that are go for boot enchant and reckoning. Those that aren't go for PoJ.


I have both PoJ and 3/5 Reck. It doesn't necessarily have to be either/or.

(Well, 1/5 Reck now; I put points back into Parry and Imp Judge; I may swap out the Imp Judge point again. And maybe put it into SW so I can have PoJ and SW.)
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