BT/Sunwell Reckoning spec?

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Postby Worldie » Mon May 05, 2008 10:19 am

Well i do have the legguards, but i prefer the spelldamage/armor on badge gear than the raw HP.

If it matters, on Kalecgos tank set i have 18k unbuffed, that would make it better...
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Postby Lore » Mon May 05, 2008 11:22 am

Worldie wrote:Well i do have the legguards, but i prefer the spelldamage/armor on badge gear than the raw HP.

If it matters, on Kalecgos tank set i have 18k unbuffed, that would make it better...


It's situational. On Kalecgos, threat isn't really a big deal since DPS gets split between the demon and dragon while tanks inherit each others' threat. Once a DPS'er goes to the demon world they will generally not be able to pull aggro.
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Postby jere » Mon May 05, 2008 12:34 pm

I have been looking at trying to fit Reckoning back into my spec. Recently I have been considering taking 2 points out of spell warding and one out of Imp. Judgement for it. That seems different from Lore's spec which takes out 1 point from BoK and the 2 from imp. judgement.

Any thoughts on that? I really like spell warding a lot, but am considering dropping it for some points in reckoning basically.
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Postby Baelor » Mon May 05, 2008 12:42 pm

Step 1:
Take the standard 0/49/12 spec sans Reckoning

Step 2:
Drop the BoKings point and 1-2 points from Improved Judgment

Step 3:
Reinvest the unassigned points in Reckoning

Result? TPS increase without any mitigation loss, and possibly smoother Judgment/threat cycles.

BoKings is not a terrible loss for most prot paladins. Kings is *never* the first choice for blessings for any class with 3 notable exceptions - tanks, survival hunters, and very high spirit resto druids. However, in most (raid) situations you will have 2 paladins, so the other guy will most likely have Kings. In reality, you'll only notice not having Kings in your spec when you're the only paladin in a 5-man instance, and it'll only be on yourself. Everyone else should have Salvation or Wisdom.
Last edited by Baelor on Mon May 05, 2008 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dmok » Mon May 05, 2008 12:47 pm

Baelor wrote:Step 1:
Kings is *never* the first choice for blessings for any class with 2 notable exceptions - tanks and very high spirit resto druids.

Make that 3: Survival hunters
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Postby Baelor » Mon May 05, 2008 1:46 pm

dmok wrote:
Baelor wrote:Kings is *never* the first choice for blessings for any class with 2 notable exceptions - tanks and very high spirit resto druids.

Make that 3: Survival hunters

I stand corrected. Edited.
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Postby Lore » Mon May 05, 2008 1:50 pm

As I recall there is very little difference between 1/2 imp judgement and 0/2.
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Postby kalbear » Mon May 05, 2008 2:16 pm

Kings is the first choice for feral druids too. Basically any class where agility is tops, Kings is going to win out. Meh...Salv would be better, you're right. Never mind. :p

And yeah, I think a 51/10 or 50/11 build with spell warding and reckoning would work pretty well, and is likely optimal for overall threat generation and mitigation. If you can afford to lose the kings, it's ideal to lose there.
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Postby jere » Mon May 05, 2008 2:46 pm

Baelor wrote:Step 1:
BoKings is not a terrible loss for most prot paladins. Kings is *never* the first choice for blessings for any class with 3 notable exceptions - tanks, survival hunters, and very high spirit resto druids. However, in most (raid) situations you will have 2 paladins, so the other guy will most likely have Kings. In reality, you'll only notice not having Kings in your spec when you're the only paladin in a 5-man instance, and it'll only be on yourself. Everyone else should have Salvation or Wisdom.


Considering I am sometimes the only paladin in the raid (oh yes it does happen), I won't be dropping BoK anytime soon. That's why I was going the spell warding/imp judgement route, at least that is why I am going to consider it.
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Postby Rorshach » Mon May 05, 2008 7:15 pm

Baelor wrote:Step 1:
Take the standard 0/49/12 spec sans Reckoning

Step 2:
Drop the BoKings point and 1-2 points from Improved Judgment

Step 3:
Reinvest the unassigned points in Reckoning

Result? TPS increase without any mitigation loss, and possibly smoother Judgment/threat cycles.


If you are tanking in Sunwell, really with the gear that we have are you going to miss 8 Defense Rating from Anticipation? Unless you are building a 127.4% set you are below the uncrushable line anyways due to Sunwell Radiance so really, you could easily drop 2 points from Anticipation and also put it in Reckoning.

This is what I finally decided to go with because I like the slight flexibility 1 point in Imp.Judgement gives you and most of you were saying 3/5 Reckoning is good enough for this level of play with some Anticipation still thrown in there.

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Postby areyla » Mon May 05, 2008 9:21 pm

I've been debating this too. Currently we're working our way around sunwell, and it's time to rethink my spec.

From what I gather Reckoning is really nice for things in sunwell like eredar where you need the threat, but then Imp Judge helps threat too.

I am guessing we need 5/5 for Sunwell due to 127.4%. Also I guess it is important to take spell warding for m'uru felmyst aura etc.

So to achieve reckoning to at least 3, I"ve seen people take from imp judge, precision, and shield spec. What would you all suggest and what kind of theory crafting is there to back it up?

Edit: How does the 1% dmg from 1pt in 1H spec compare to 1 point in reckoning?
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Postby Arthran » Tue May 06, 2008 1:59 am

Rorshach wrote:Unless you are building a 127.4% set ...


Totally off-topic, but anybody get the idea that WOTLK you will need this figure to be uncrushable, Meaning blizz are making us get WOTLK uncrushable in Sunwell so as soon as it hit your ready for the first raid instance. (much like you could easily do kara/maulgar in T3)
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Postby Levantine » Tue May 06, 2008 2:27 am

Baelor wrote:Step 1:
Take the standard 0/49/12 spec sans Reckoning

Step 2:
Drop the BoKings point and 1-2 points from Improved Judgment

Step 3:
Reinvest the unassigned points in Reckoning

Result? TPS increase without any mitigation loss, and possibly smoother Judgment/threat cycles.

BoKings is not a terrible loss for most prot paladins. Kings is *never* the first choice for blessings for any class with 3 notable exceptions - tanks, survival hunters, and very high spirit resto druids. However, in most (raid) situations you will have 2 paladins, so the other guy will most likely have Kings. In reality, you'll only notice not having Kings in your spec when you're the only paladin in a 5-man instance, and it'll only be on yourself. Everyone else should have Salvation or Wisdom.


I prefer Kings over Wisdom as a Spirit stacking Priest as well. I get more healing, more regen, more HP, and more Mana with Kings instead of the regen from Wisdom. In anything that's a challenge though, my kara group consists of three paladins, so I have Improved Wisdom, Kings and Salvation always. :P
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Postby Baelor » Tue May 06, 2008 5:56 am

Levantine wrote:
Baelor wrote:Step 1:
Take the standard 0/49/12 spec sans Reckoning

Step 2:
Drop the BoKings point and 1-2 points from Improved Judgment

Step 3:
Reinvest the unassigned points in Reckoning

Result? TPS increase without any mitigation loss, and possibly smoother Judgment/threat cycles.

BoKings is not a terrible loss for most prot paladins. Kings is *never* the first choice for blessings for any class with 3 notable exceptions - tanks, survival hunters, and very high spirit resto druids. However, in most (raid) situations you will have 2 paladins, so the other guy will most likely have Kings. In reality, you'll only notice not having Kings in your spec when you're the only paladin in a 5-man instance, and it'll only be on yourself. Everyone else should have Salvation or Wisdom.


I prefer Kings over Wisdom as a Spirit stacking Priest as well. I get more healing, more regen, more HP, and more Mana with Kings instead of the regen from Wisdom. In anything that's a challenge though, my kara group consists of three paladins, so I have Improved Wisdom, Kings and Salvation always. :P

So dropping the Kings point off the tankadin will only impair 5-man runs. But then again, Wisdom is still useful.
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Postby Janduin » Tue May 06, 2008 7:31 am

I am resisting dropping Kings and Imp. judgement...but I dropped Spell Warding to get 2/5 Reckoning, and seems to proc often. Was the Reckoning uptime graph ever redone with more reasonable BT/Sunwell MT avoidance numbers? If 3/5 remains the gold standard I will probably eventually drop a point in Imp. Judgement to pick up 3/5.
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