BT/Sunwell Reckoning spec?

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BT/Sunwell Reckoning spec?

Postby Rorshach » Sun May 04, 2008 3:22 pm

I will preface right now that I am preferably looking for comments from pally tanks who actually tank Sunwell trash and bosses or have tanked the harder bosses in BT.

I've only been on these forums for a short while now, but obviously like many of you I armory everyone I can who are progressing through Sunwell content like I am because there is always room for improvement. I easily understand all the math behind being a great tank but only for what has gone before and I am not that good at theorycrafting statistics so I'm turning to you :D

Just over 2 weeks ago I spec'd Reckoning after my GM/Raid Leader talked with me about it. My GM is a hunter who is a relentless theorycrafter. Even though he admittedly knows next to nothing about Paladins, in looking at the numbers and specs and not seeing a single end-game tank spec with Reckoning I could not argue against trying it. This is the spec I am using atm:
http://www.wowdb.com/talent.aspx?id=2#f ... f2e2f7ef10

My initial argument obviously was increased parry chance and the lack of actual Reckoning procs due to our end-game gear translating into a high amount of dodges/parries/misses when tanking in BT and Sunwell but the numbers have proven insufficient to worry about. If you wish WWS here is our list of stats:
http://wowwebstats.com/2gexccfp42qai

Today is the first Sunwell spec I have found that does use Reckoning and it is the prot pally from SK Gaming who was a tank on their Mu'ru world first kill, Fenira. There is an issue with Fenira's armory link because of the apostrophe in the realm name, you will have to copy/paste the link to get to it:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... h&n=Fenira
Talent Spec: http://www.wowdb.com/talent.aspx?id=2#f ... e4fe2fef19

I don't need to spec into Imp.Conc. Aura or Imp.BoMight because the holy pallies do that for us so I do have more points to play with.

What I'm looking for are hard numbers, or hard theorycrafting numbers, from those of you who do tank Sunwell:

1. Would you (or do you?) stack more Block Rating, possibly in trying to hit 127.4% and thus making you more likely to block an attack vs. miss/parry/dodge and thus proc'ing Reckoning more?

2. Any Sunwell tank that does use Reckoning have numbers on boss-parry increase?

3. How much of an increase in physical and holy DPS is Reckoning on average? Looking at this Teron kill: http://wowwebstats.com/xeyampstmp3ou?a= ... 7257#buffs Reckoning hit 25 times in 2 minutes and 49 seconds. I don't know WWS well enough to know but I imagine these are actual hits from Reckoning procs so I will assume that it actually activated 7 times and that 3 charges did not get used.

Any random on-topic comments, theories or what-have-you welcomed.

As a comparison for any interested, here is a Kalecgos kill before I spec'd Reckoning. I will be replying to this thread tonight after we kill Kalecgos and see the difference with Reckoning. Kalecgos is a hard fight to parse into WWS though because of the two different realms. Need about 8-10 ppl logging to properly get all data.

Me: http://wowwebstats.com/uu55rnq6olywk?a= ... #abilities
Warrior: http://wowwebstats.com/uu55rnq6olywk?a= ... #abilities
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Postby Lore » Sun May 04, 2008 3:38 pm

Boss parry isn't a big deal in Sunwell - Brutallus doesn't get parry haste, and anyone else the tank damage isn't a big deal, it's the raid damage.

I've been using a 0/51/10 spec for a few weeks now, I like it. Check my sig for the link, 3/5 reckoning, no imp judgement. Didn't see much of a threat loss from dropping imp judgement, and 3/5 reckoning procs quite a bit.
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Postby moduspwnens » Sun May 04, 2008 3:41 pm

I recently switched to a similiar spec, only I put 4/5 point in Reckoning and one in Improved Judgement. Reckoning still procs quite often, and with one point in Imp Judgement, I am able to get 3 Judgements in each Avenging Wrath instead of just two. I have to say I'm quite a fan of this spec.

Heh, but I'm also not in Sunwell. Yet.
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Postby Worldie » Sun May 04, 2008 3:53 pm

I also went for 3/5 Reckoning after having 5/5 for a week or two as well.

Did not notice much difference in uptime, and it's a considerable threat boost.
I'd rather have 5/5, but u have to take points from somewhere to pick Sanctity ><

From pure guessing (no math behind this, might be BS), i'd say 3/5 Reckoning is around 5-6% TPS boost.
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Postby Rorshach » Sun May 04, 2008 4:38 pm

Worldie wrote:I also went for 3/5 Reckoning after having 5/5 for a week or two as well.

I'd rather have 5/5, but u have to take points from somewhere to pick Sanctity ><


I noticed that you don't include Ardent Defender in your spec???
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Postby Worldie » Sun May 04, 2008 6:18 pm

I don't consider AD useful in Sunwell, i'm anyway possibly dead in any moment i'm under 10k HP, and AD kicks in at 8kish while raidbuffed.

Considering my stats, the only moment in which i'd possibly be saved by AD is if i'm at more than 5k HP and get a 7-8k hit, which is very unlikely, since the situations are most of the times 50%+ -> dead
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Lore » Sun May 04, 2008 7:57 pm

O_o

On Brutallus, sure. Any other fight, there's so much magical damage etc flying around that AD is amazing.
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Postby Worldie » Sun May 04, 2008 8:14 pm

We aint on brutallus yet so allow me to attempt without :D

For sure on Kalec i didn't notice any difference with and without. Either i have healers and i'm alive, or i don't and i'm dead :'(
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Melathys » Mon May 05, 2008 6:43 am

When thinking about it, I may drop pursuit of justice for 3/5 reckoning. In my current content, I'm usually begging for more dmg anyway (I'll often sit for a crit. So a parry haste could be a good thing, lol.
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Postby Lore » Mon May 05, 2008 7:46 am

Worldie wrote:We aint on brutallus yet so allow me to attempt without :D

For sure on Kalec i didn't notice any difference with and without. Either i have healers and i'm alive, or i don't and i'm dead :'(


I've definitely noticed a good share of AD saves on Kalecgos, both in the Demon realm and the normal realm. Demon hits for 6-9k, Dragon hits for about 5-7k with the extra AOE arcane damage ramping up to around 5k. Excellent numbers for AD with a 24k health pool.
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Postby Worldie » Mon May 05, 2008 8:06 am

Then i'm far from that since my HP are around 21k on Kalecgos. No imp, and not always shout up :\

I'd love to be still able to keep AD but i would not really know from where to take points.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Rorshach » Mon May 05, 2008 8:08 am

Lore wrote:
I've definitely noticed a good share of AD saves on Kalecgos, both in the Demon realm and the normal realm. Demon hits for 6-9k, Dragon hits for about 5-7k with the extra AOE arcane damage ramping up to around 5k. Excellent numbers for AD with a 24k health pool.


^^ This goes for me as well. It is kind of a running joke that I can last forever at low health with Commendation trinket, AD and soon to be exalted SSO Aldor neck. Going from Scryer to Aldor in one shot takes a lot! :(
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Postby Lore » Mon May 05, 2008 8:21 am

Worldie wrote:Then i'm far from that since my HP are around 21k on Kalecgos. No imp, and not always shout up :\

I'd love to be still able to keep AD but i would not really know from where to take points.


Hmm, I don't wear anything particularly special for stam on the fight, and I don't usually have imp either (though I make sure shout is up). Looks like you logged out in solo'ing gear.

At any rate yeah if you're going for Sanctity Aura you won't be able to fit AD in there... but I'm not a big fan of going for Sanctity Aura :P
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Postby Worldie » Mon May 05, 2008 8:51 am

If i have the shield from SSO, i logged in threat/solo gear ye. (i logged out in normal gear now tho but armory decided to show FR equip oO)

My "main" gear is like, t6/illidan helm, kael neck, t6 shoulders, badge back, t6 chest, naj wrist, t6 glove, bb paladin belt, 2.4 badge legs, naj boots, morogrim ring, exhalted hyjal ring, empyrean turtle, commendation, hammer of judgement, kazrogal shield.

That's somewhere like 16600 unbuffed hp turning into 20kish buffed without imp, max i can get is around 23k with shout i think...
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Lore » Mon May 05, 2008 9:06 am

I had I think 23.4k before our kill, as soon as I got T6 bracers that jumped up a bunch (I was using Wristguards of Determination before). I've since gotten Judicator's Legguards as well but that wasn't really a stam upgrade.

Only real stam difference between my gear when we killed Kalecgos and your gear now is Bulwark of Azzinoth (since you've got a defense gem in KHH) and Praetorian's Legguards, which I guess might make up 400 hp.

EDIT: I also gemmed for stam in everything, unless the difference was <4-5 stam.
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