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Ardent Defender vs Reckoning

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Ardent Defender vs Reckoning

Postby Viskahn » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:12 am

I have now gotten to the stage where i am tanking on trash in hyjal and working my way into tanking the earlier bosses in MH/BT with my guild, and am concerned somewhat about my spec;

We all know that the prot tree is ridiculously bloated with 5-point talents, such that you can basically never get everything that you want. My talent build is currently: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhtIx0dggotVbx
and i am trying to figure out what i should drop in order to get Ardent Defender, which is pretty much necessary at this stage of the game.

So what can i drop? Reckoning seems the most popular choice, and yet i love those extra attacks too much - they give some very useful extra threat, they can make grinding that much quicker, and when i am strapping on my [item]Nightfall[/item] and haste gear (when not tanking), getting some reckoning means twice as many chances to proc the debuff. Losing all that seems like a lot, so i am looking at other choices;
I cant afford to drop Deflection or Anticipation yet - my gear simply isnt up to the standard where i would feel comfortable without them. Precision? Its possible, but losing 3% spellhit can be a right pain with those damned inaccurate frisbees of ours.
I considered dropping toughness - losing a couple of thousand armor would only be a 1 or 2% drop in mitigation right? And our physical damage mitigation is already pretty decent thanks to our blocks.


So help me out here plx, the tradeoffs for getting Ardent Defender all seem very expensive, but it is a vital talent when getting into endgame (or is it...?). Wah.
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Postby guillex » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:39 am

You shouldn't be without AD, really.

I don't have Spell Warding, and I'm only 2/5 reckoning. Works for me.
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Postby Niia » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:40 am

Honestly, im kind of stuck too. I used to have 5/5 reckoning and dropped to 3/5 for spell warding..AD is a must as far as im concerned, especially going into MH/BT. I actually think im going to drop Reckoning completely for PoJ just because we are getting into MH and with AoE tanking reckoning doesnt really even seem usefull..i dont know.
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Postby sweeney » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:00 pm

I've been using 3/5 Reckoning for about a month and I hardly notice any difference versus 5/5. It's still up any time I have a clump of mobs on me.
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Re: Ardent Defender vs Reckoning

Postby Aloette » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:45 pm

Viskahn wrote:I have now gotten to the stage where i am tanking on trash in hyjal and working my way into tanking the earlier bosses in MH/BT with my guild, and am concerned somewhat about my spec;

We all know that the prot tree is ridiculously bloated with 5-point talents, such that you can basically never get everything that you want. My talent build is currently: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhtIx0dggotVbx
and i am trying to figure out what i should drop in order to get Ardent Defender, which is pretty much necessary at this stage of the game.

So what can i drop? Reckoning seems the most popular choice, and yet i love those extra attacks too much - they give some very useful extra threat, they can make grinding that much quicker, and when i am strapping on my [item]Nightfall[/item] and haste gear (when not tanking), getting some reckoning means twice as many chances to proc the debuff. Losing all that seems like a lot, so i am looking at other choices;
I cant afford to drop Deflection or Anticipation yet - my gear simply isnt up to the standard where i would feel comfortable without them. Precision? Its possible, but losing 3% spellhit can be a right pain with those damned inaccurate frisbees of ours.
I considered dropping toughness - losing a couple of thousand armor would only be a 1 or 2% drop in mitigation right? And our physical damage mitigation is already pretty decent thanks to our blocks.


So help me out here plx, the tradeoffs for getting Ardent Defender all seem very expensive, but it is a vital talent when getting into endgame (or is it...?). Wah.


Just so you know, AS uses melee hit, not spellhit.

what about something like this
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=s

you could fiddle around with deflection/spellwarding/improved judgement
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Postby xyzor » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:37 pm

Take 2 pts out of Reckoning for sure. Reck is a nice talent to have, but really more of novelty fun that anything vitally important. There are a few threads around that track its uptime, and 3 pts seems to be the most 'efficient' number to put in. Drop Spell Warding...it is essentially worthless - there's another 2 pts. Then, if you can, drop 1 point out of anticipation. Defense is easy to pick up, so that talent is an easy place to take points from for things you;ll like better. You can easily make up for it with chest/cloak def chants, if you arent already using them.

AD is, IMO, one of the core Tankadin talents....and is our passive 'oh shit' button...NEVER be without it.
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Postby Viskahn » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:06 pm

thanks for the responses guys. is it definitely true about AS using melee hit, and do any of our other spells use melee hit too? seems odd that blizz are putting spellhit on all the new tankadin-aimed badge loot if that is the case, but also means maybe i can get pickup a bit of melee hit without feeling as though it is wasted now...

xyzor wrote:Take 2 pts out of Reckoning for sure. Reck is a nice talent to have, but really more of novelty fun that anything vitally important. There are a few threads around that track its uptime, and 3 pts seems to be the most 'efficient' number to put in. Drop Spell Warding...it is essentially worthless - there's another 2 pts. Then, if you can, drop 1 point out of anticipation. Defense is easy to pick up, so that talent is an easy place to take points from for things you;ll like better. You can easily make up for it with chest/cloak def chants, if you arent already using them.

AD is, IMO, one of the core Tankadin talents....and is our passive 'oh shit' button...NEVER be without it.


i like this idea. i can afford to drop a point in anticipation easily, and that will enable me to keep "some" points in reckoning at least.
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Postby Frickit » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:32 pm

I think I read somewhere that in addition to spell hit being moderately important for us melee hit will also now add to the effectiveness of your righteous defense and your avenger's shield. So having a little of either couldnt hurt although you probably dont need either to survive.

I tried dropping spell warding for 3 points in reckoning and I quickly reversed myself. I felt like I was getting hurt more from spells and reckoning wasnt as much fun as I remember it being while I was leveling. The way I see it is you should go with the cookie cutter 49/12 unless your highly geared and can afford to (through your gear) add more threat to your build.

I thought about sitting at 490 and losing some anticipation but Defense rating adds to your avoidance dont forget and the ZA shield that I want OH so badly doesnt have defense rating iirc so I like sitting at 500+ def.

The OP can prolly afford to lose the slight mitigation now that Im looking at that post.
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Postby Elsie » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:40 pm

If [Boss==Brutallus]
use Reckoning over Ardent Defender
else use Ardent Defender
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Postby Jobalq » Mon May 26, 2008 9:00 am

What to do while leveling? :shock:

I am starting Outlands with 5/5 Reck and 4/5 One Handed Weapon Esp.
With this litle health pool it will worth to put my points in AD at this moment?
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Postby Worldie » Mon May 26, 2008 9:09 am

while leveling reckoning is a lot > than AD
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Postby fuzzygeek » Mon May 26, 2008 9:20 am

I'd recommend installing the Tankadin mod (latest version: http://files.wowace.com/Tankadin/Tankadin.zip ) and see what your AD numbers look like.

After an entire week of raiding, AD saved my bacon once (which was my own fault), and has mitigated .38% of an incoming 16 million damage.

Your numbers will vary with your gear and how good/focused your healers are.

So I felt comfortable dropping one point out of AD. You might not, and to some people giving up that 6% is blasphemy.

I have one point in reckoning, and it's up a heck of a lot.

This is my current spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVbxIx0dRgatVox0h

0/47/14 Features:
3/3 PoJ
2/2 Spell Warding
5/5 Anticipation
4/5 Ardent Defender
0/1 Kings
1/2 Imp Judgement
2/3 Precision
1/5 Reckoning
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Postby Ryu » Tue May 27, 2008 7:24 am

I have a partial Reck spec, been trying it out for some weeks in Sunwell, been loving it so far, procs alot.

I still have AD though, wouldn't wanna skip it for anything i the world.
Last edited by Ryu on Tue May 27, 2008 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue May 27, 2008 8:18 am

Reckoning and AD can't be compared simply because you're not getting the same final benefits from them. one is threat and the other is survivability. Personally I don't see how trading ad for reckoning will be a worthwhile trade in any form, specially since threat can throttle down, survivability can't.

and AD is op for aoe
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Postby Frickit » Tue May 27, 2008 10:50 am

Snake-Aes wrote:Reckoning and AD can't be compared simply because you're not getting the same final benefits from them. one is threat and the other is survivability. Personally I don't see how trading ad for reckoning will be a worthwhile trade in any form, specially since threat can throttle down, survivability can't.

and AD is op for aoe


I agree, AD is just too good. When I take reckoning I usually lose Kings, spell warding or take a point from imp judgements. 3/5 reck or even 2/5 reck is good enough.
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