Spec Theory: 0/38/23

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Re: Spec Theory: 0/38/23

Postby Coldaan » Wed May 16, 2007 4:45 am

Thels wrote:Getting more aggro from talents, allows you to get away with less aggro from gear, so you can itemize for more avoidance gear.


hmm.... good point.^^
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Re: Spec Theory: 0/38/23

Postby Lev » Wed May 16, 2007 5:35 am

Thels wrote:
Coldaan wrote:3) the stuff you gain is probably helping you with the aggro, but I don't need more aggro. I need more armor, health, def-stats etc. For me, that's all that matters atm, I've never had any trouble holding aggro.


Getting more aggro from talents, allows you to get away with less aggro from gear, so you can itemize for more avoidance gear.


Even with the best avoidance gear it shouldnt be a problem to maintain aggro by now.
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Postby Thels » Wed May 16, 2007 6:05 am

That's not exactly what I'm experiencing.

And as always, more aggro means the DPS can go loose more. The more loose they can go, the shorter the fight and the less mana problems for the healers.
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Postby Eranas » Wed May 16, 2007 4:35 pm

Not to be rude, but isn't the standard spec 0/49/12
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Postby Lore » Wed May 16, 2007 4:45 pm

Eranas wrote:Not to be rude, but isn't the standard spec 0/49/12


It is, I don't know why I said 44. I was probably drunk, or had just woken up, or both.
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Postby jere » Wed May 16, 2007 4:52 pm

Actually I am curious what the tankadins that have ventured into SSC and beyond have to say about our aggro and threat.

I rock around 239 spell dmg in tanking gear, but even I have seen the DPS get closer and closer in terms of threat as they start rocking out their 900-1k+ spell dmg gear. Shoot, with the chance for our spells to be resisted against higher level mobs as it is, I have had some unlucky strings.

I still hold aggro all right most of the time, but I am definitely starting to feel a bit squeezed as everyone else is getting better and I am still stuck with my 239 spell dmg.

Granted, I have only tanked in up to Gruul's and Mag, so I know my experience is limited compared to a lot of you.
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Postby Lore » Wed May 16, 2007 5:32 pm

I've started collecting spell damage gear, I just recently got 4/5 tier 4 that I can swap into for aggro-sensitive fights. I've got 234 spell damage in my standard tanking gear, 329 in spell damage gear. Haven't had people pull aggro yet but it's been pretty tight some times.
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Postby Thels » Thu May 17, 2007 3:37 am

Lore> What weapon are you fighting with? Unless you have the Fang, the PvP hammer will be a nice upgrade after the patch.
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Postby Lore » Thu May 17, 2007 7:07 am

Yeah I'm still using continuum blade, looking very closely at the Fang of the Leviathan once we start killing Leotheras. I'd pick up the pvp hammer but, well, I really hate pvp on my paladin :P
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Postby Joanadark » Thu May 17, 2007 8:17 am

looking very closely at the Fang of the Leviathan once we start killing Leotheras.


good luck fighting the casters for it....

...reminding me of the old Azuresong Mageblade days......

seriously.
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Postby Joanadark » Thu May 17, 2007 8:32 am

speaking of which, I had a thought.

back in the days of working through MC-BWL and on, the guild i was in was very deliberately flexible about specs. specifically off-specs.

our healer force was always small, but we decided to still allow one of our four raiding priests to dedicate to shadow spec and one of our three druids to feral, and one to moonkin. The paladins were all over the place, but I was the only prot spec, and it was only really for use in pvp.
Our very first razorgore kill dropped Untamed Blade and it went to a retadin. Ashkandi went to a hunter.

anyway, what this made me remember was how, right from the very beginning, the two warriors who were the closest we had to "main tanks" were never once protection spec in the entire advancement through mc and bwl. I'm talking when the encounters were new to us.

Instead, they were Fury, speced deep enough to get defiance for the threat bonus.
And their aggro was hella high. On resist fights, we often even had them dual-wield.

The strategy we developed as a guild was in direct response to our lack of healers. Instead of DPS holding back and healers conserving and the tanks going prot and slowly sundering away, we did the reverse.

Our tanks took a much higher amount of damage, yes. Our Paladin-heavy healing core responded with maximizing HPS-output and we tended to throw tanks in a group with the shadow priest and a sanctity aura retadin and a warlock or two.

And we burned shit down.

Thats where I learned to value synergy, as well as appriciate unlimited threat-gen.
The survival "expose weakness" hunter, feral druid, shadow priest, ret pally, moonkin, arms and fury warriors, and destruction warlocks came together as greater than the sum of their parts.
And nothing teaches people to learn how to play like riding the edge of what's possible and "viable".
The day the retadin got his Nightfall was a happy day.


I think massive threat-gen is underestimated.
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Postby Joanadark » Thu May 17, 2007 8:43 am

I do continue to find AS very useful (especially once you get out of Karazhan and can't rely on Exorcism as a ranged pull anymore), but this might have merit as well.


I find that theres something deliciously nostalgic about "pally pulling".
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Postby Trevize » Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:31 am

"I find that theres something deliciously nostalgic about "pally pulling"

So true. Linken's Boomerang RIP.

I have also been toying with a build similar to this, but I just find myself losing to much in the protection tree, now with Imp. Holy Shield I just feel I would give up to much. Plus with sanctity aura changed, the threat boost is nice but the 6% healing loss kinda defeats the original purpose.
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Postby Lore » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:12 am

Yeah I don't think it's at all worthwhile anymore.
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Re: Spec Theory: 0/38/23

Postby Lightskin » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:38 am

Lore wrote:Someone on the Paladin forums mentioned this build earlier and it got me thinking: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=qZVGtIx0dgzZVfx0bczb

Basically, compared to the standard 0/49/12 spec, you lose:
-Avenger's Shield
-1h Spec
-Ardent Defender

but you gain:
-Sanctity Aura
-Improved Sanctity Aura
-Improved Seal of the Crusader
-Pursuit of Justice
-Crusade

Considering that there really isn't any mitigation given up outside of Ardent Defender (which in its current state I haven't found to be super useful), and Sanctity Aura more than makes up for the threat loss from 1h spec, the question really seems to be "How important is Avenger's Shield?" And is it worth the 6% increased healing from Sanc Aura?

I'm thinking I might try this out tonight in Karazhan and see how it goes, but I'd love some input.



There is no more 6% increased healing.


Edit:


woops pre-patch topic! lol
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