Rotating your targets

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Rotating your targets

Postby Alixander » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:35 pm

I feel kinda silly asking this, since a part of me thinks this should be such a simple thing, but I seem to have a lot of issues with rotating my targets, esp. when I'm dealing with multi-mob tanking.

Single targets: This is really just an issue of fighting a mob or a boss with a directional AOE where I try to rotate it by moving diagonally, turning while I do so, so it will rotate to face me. Problem is that when I move, it seems to move with me so I end up with the mob still facing towards the party, only now my side is facing it as well. If I try to do a quarter circle turn, this time it will move foward towards me then back away when I finish my turn, and god only knows what direction it's facing now... Finally if I try to approach the target then back away in the direction I want it to face, it sometimes will work, but other times it will back away as I approach and then come at me at an angle which may or may not be any good.

Multiple targets: If I have one target aimed at an area that isn't or may not allow for blocking/parrying and I can't just rotate to keep them all in the frontal area, and I can't back away then I'm left with trying to rotate them so they'll all be in my frontal zone, and half the time I'll end up with one moving with me, which leaves it on the side again, similar to the problem I listed above.

So I'm asking for some assistance with this issue, if there is any other than repeatedly trying to place the mob where I need them.
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Postby Lumenactio » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:57 pm

If you're asking what I think you're asking...

I run through the mob and as I run through them I turn around and face the group and walk backwards.

The mob follows. Now facing away from the party. I then position it where I want and the mobs back is still to the party.
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Postby Alixander » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:01 pm

While that's a good method, in some situations (like Black Morass when I'm using rank 1 consecrate to pull the adds from the portals) I want to be facing a specific direction, instead of just "not at the party". In the example I listed above, I need to rotate the boss, and be in a position so that my back is not open to attacks from the adds as they run past me.
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Postby Lore » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:53 pm

Er, so turn around? That same method works either direction.
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Postby corc » Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:16 pm

I think I know what he's talking about.

Sometimes in SH I'll los a group with casters and such and when all the mobs finally get to me one for some reason stands behind me, I'd like move so that they all face my front. A lot of the time they end up doing crazy pathing and never really have them all getting a HS proc or standing far away since they are a caster and i had to move a few paces to get them all in a nice organized aoe'able formation.

No good way to fix that since I think it's an artifact from server to client mob location. What I do sometimes is, if a boss or mob is just acting like I'm facing another way, I'll pay attention to the "you must be facing your target" errors and guess what the mob sees and try to move so that what the mob sees is where i should be--not necessarily where I really am... if that makes any sense :P
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Postby Alixander » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:00 am

I guess I was just bad at explaining it. corc has it right. When I have issues, it's usually a pathing error. Like I'll back up for whatever reason, only to have the mob, instead of moving forward to get closer, it backs up and move sideways a bit before approaching me. Then instead of it hitting my shield, I have something chewing on my shoulder. It's really stupid/annoying.
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Postby Lore » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:02 am

Ah, yeah, I hate that. Haven't really found an effective way to deal with it other than running the whole group away from that spot and back again.
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Postby Joanadark » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:14 am

The most important factor to consider when positioning mobs is not their body, but the red targeting reticle on the floor underneath them when they are selected.

Look at the big red circle underneath them and imagine a dot in the very center. This is the turning axis of the mob. It is also the determiner of Line of Sight for that mob.

This is significant because it is not also located either directly under the center of the creature, and doesnt necessarily have any relation to the creature's head. You can be out of line of sight of something, yet have it's head right in front of your face looking right at you. A good example would be if you happen to be standing with a pillar right next to you.

When turning a mob 180 degrees, ensure the area around you is clear, and approach the central axis of the targeting reticle directly from the front. As you approach, and even as you enter and stand on the red targeting reticle its self, you will still be "in front" of the boss and blocking their attacks.
The old dragon bosses could be tanked standing directly underneath their belly while still being in front of them. Come to think of it, Onyxia was the classic example for learning good positioning and turning skills on a boss pre-BC.
Anyway, having approached to right in front of the turning epicenter, when you deem the time right, simply step through it and past it and turn around in place. Time this in between the boss's swing timer so you dont take an unmitigated hit to the back if possible.

Using this method, the boss you are tanking will remain precisely stationary, turn immediately 180 degrees around at the precise moment of your choosing, and Line of Sight on you by the boss will be maintained at all times.
Don't strafe when executing a turn, this leads to sloppy and unintended positioning and other people getting cleaved. Step through.



When multi-tanking non-casters, I position them initially by gathering them up and essentially "whipping the group around" a couple times.
Mobs cluster up by being forced to chase you, and this is where good mobility skills as a tank come in.
You'll be greatly aided by a good hunter throwing down an ice slick trap or a shammy with an earthbind, but neither is necessary.
I generally "pally pull" groups, and do so by simply charging at them screaming at the top of my lungs, and run through and right past them to the other side, and then on another 10 feet before quickly spinning myself around and throwing up HS.

Trash groups start out moderately dispersed, so then will run at you from various angles in your frontal arc.
Once they have all reached you, start strafing to the side step by step constantly, while staying angled towards the group of mobs. As you strafe/turn/angle left, you mobs on your right will initially simply turn towards you as you rotate on their axis, maybe taking a step or two closer, while the ones on your left will remain where they are.
The goal is to have the whole group pulled into a line and looking the same direction (to the left), rather than dispersed accross your whole frontal arch with maybe one or two sneaking around behind you.
This strafe move needs to be executed fairly quickly.

If you do it right, all the mobs end up in a tight clump on top of each other.

If there's a corner or wall nearby, there's also the wonderful option to Line-of-Sight pull, a skill which every tank should know and cultivate.
Arkham's Razor: a theory which states the simplest explaination tends to lead to Cthulu.
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Postby Lightskin » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:45 am

I circle strafe like an idiot while the melee dps try to follow me while I am positioning them correctly.
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Postby Daimokuren » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:58 am

I know exactly what you mean, and it is a pain. On a related note of annoyance, and maybe I'm just crazy, mobs used to always insist on standing right inside of me. Drove me nuts. Now it seems that after the patch, instead of trying to stand inside of me, they flat out like to run through and stand behind me. Gah!

Then there's pulling multiple mobs, and a rogue or shadow priest likes to stun/blackout Skull right outside of your conc and out of swing range, so you have to step up to it, which means running through the other mobs, so they're behind you now, and you get to reposition all over again. I know you all know what I'm talking about, lol. Or maybe that just is mean. When I pull it's: Captain America > lay conc > step back to the edge of my conc so all the mobs have to walk through every bit of it, then proceed to tank... Or run up to the now stunned mob outside the edge of my conc, in some cases. :P

Joan covered it pretty well. Only other thing I might add is that if a mob is off to your side, they're not necessarily in a place where you can't dodge/parry/block, just may look that way. I've noticed mobs apparently directly at my side, but I'm still avoiding and mitigating.

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Postby Noradin » Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:24 am

Sometimes I spec 0/44/17 an take at least one Point of "Pursuit of Justice" - seems to reduce the problem somewhat.
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Postby Lore » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:41 am

Boar's Speed is also a good method of getting a little quicker movement; the mats are pretty rough, and you lose 3 stam, but it's oftentimes worth it.
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