5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:57 am

I have a ready-made WeakAuras setup that might make you feel less dufus-y:
http://sacredduty.net/2012/10/23/tankad ... ngs-5-0-5/

(it plays a cash register sound when you hit 5 Holy Power to remind you to use it)
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Andarael » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:38 am

A nice distinctive sound might just cut through the cobwebs - I'll give that a try, thanks. And also thanks for all the work you do, btw.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby DisRuptive1 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:14 am

Any chance you can list the best enchants for each slot? Sure I can go look and find it but I just got a new shield for my alt and want to know what I should put on it.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Schroom » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:38 am

I cna list you the enchants I chose, as I think those are the best alternatives. hoppefully we launch a discussion and maybe I learn something new ^^

Shoulders: inscription ox thingy: 300 Stamina 100 Dodge
cape: 200 Stamina
Chest: 300 Stamina
Bracers: 170 Mastery
Gauntlets: 170 Expertise OR Sha Armor kit (150 Stamina) OR 170 Mastery OR 170 Haste. where I chose Expertise to be the better option right now.
Belt: Beltbuckle
Legs: built by leatherworkers: 430 Stamina and 165 Dodge
Boots: Pandaren's step (140 Mastery + 8% movement speed) OR Sha Armor Kit (150 Stamina) OR Greater Haste (175 Haste) I chose Pandaren's step as the movement speed increase is always very lovely in raids. but I don't know if it stacks with any other movement increase the paladin got already by default. if this isn't the case, I would rather take the Sha Armor Kit for some juicy stamina, or greater haste, depending on gear level and content you do.
Shield: 170 parry
Weapon: I found windsong to be the preferable choice, but also colossus seems to eb an option as soon as 5.1 hits. the weapon chain is an option as well as it gives a nice Expertise push.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:48 am

Shoulders: 300 Stam 100 dodge
Cloak: 200 Stam
Chest: 300 Stam (noticing a pattern here?)
Bracers: 170 Mastery (no competitive stamina option)
Gauntlets: 150 Stam (Sha armor kit)
Belt: Buckle up with a Stam gem
Legs: 430 stam 165 dodge
Boots: 150 Stam (Sha armor kit). Pandaren's Step doesn't stack with Pursuit of Justice (or either of our other L15 talents, I think).
Shield: 170 parry (no competitive stam option)
Weapon: I've been using Colossus. The weapon chain is a good potential alternative. Windsong gives you approximately 600 points worth of "stuff" when time-averaged, but it's got the downsides of not being controllable and granting stats that are either useless (crit) or weak compared our most desired stats (Stam/hit/exp >> haste/mastery). IMO the weapon chain is a better enchant than Windsong. River's Song is going to be ~750 dodge rating after time averaging, which is far weaker than the weapon chain if you're going with a control strategy.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby knaughty » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:53 pm

I'll try and get some time this weekend to fold in the updates and corrections.

Thanks to all for providing them.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Schroom » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:05 am

thanks Theck.
I gues choosing between stam and Exp also depends on the content one is doing. I'm still in normal mode so I prefer Exp sometimes over full out stamina... but I'm still undecided if I should drop Exp hardcap for full out stamina...

and what about gems. I'm still undecided between
yellow: hit or hit/stam
blue: full stam, hit/stam, exp/stam
red: full expertise, expertise/stam
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby DisRuptive1 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:02 pm

theckhd wrote:Enchants:
Stam


Why enchant so much stamina? Are bosses still able to three shot us?
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:38 pm

More or less, yes. Many of them hit for 200k after armor mitigation. Some of them have even higher burst (25H Feng hits you for 200k twice every 2 seconds during the shield phase). However, Stamina is a strong stat even against bosses that can't 3-shot you.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Robob » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:41 am

Reading this post upon coming back to wow made me all hot and bothered, good to see you are still around knaughty & theckhd!
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Showania » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:34 pm

I'm curious of the argument of Colossus vs. River's Song, I personally am not a fan of the rng chance that River's Song could proc and I still get hit regardless, but the absorb of Colossus is rather low, and even in a fight like Stone Guard where I'm being melee'd consistently, I'm seeing roughly only 200K total absorbs from it. Sorry if this was addressed somewhere else but I didn't find it >.>;
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby theckhd » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:45 pm

There's some discussion about it in this thread in the Gear forum.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby DisRuptive1 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:22 pm

SoT proc is tiny, but the DoT is huge - 18k DPS (~20% of our damage) once stacked, in starter raid gear. You can trade that almost exactly 1:1 to healing by switching to SoI and your self-heals get bigger.


You posted this thread on September 20th so I'm not sure if this was made in light of the hotfixes that came out on 10/2/2012.

One of our goals with our active mitigation tanking model is that you have opportunities to trade significant survivability for more damage when maximum survivability isn’t required. This damage gain is intended to be relatively small, and not worth the loss in survivability when actively tanking.

For maximum survivability, Protection Paladins are intended to use Seal of Insight, since it provides a buff to their self-healing, and also provides a significant self-heal on their melee in combination with Vengeance. Unfortunately, when using Seal of Insight, their damage was too low compared to the other tanks. When using Seal of Truth, their damage was too high. So, we’ve increased Protection Paladin damage in general to compensate for Seal of Insight’s relatively low output, while simultaneously reducing the damage of Seal of Truth to bring it into line.

  • Holy Wrath now deals 100% more damage.
  • Avenger's Shield now deals 50% more damage.
  • Seal of Truth and Censure now deal 80% less damage for Protection Paladins only.
Source

Just wanted to make sure this was taken into account.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby econ21 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:35 am

DisRuptive1 wrote:Just wanted to make sure this was taken into account.


Yes, good point - which seal should we use? Answer is now SoI period.

Also, in the glyph section, glyph of battle healer is mandatory. It is ridiculously powerful for a glyph (which are not supposed to be "no brainers").
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Gab » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:03 am

econ21 wrote:Also, in the glyph section, glyph of battle healer is mandatory. It is ridiculously powerful for a glyph (which are not supposed to be "no brainers").


That's a little bit absolute. On most encounters it's going to be one of your go to options. But On fights where the ranged/healers are regularly at more than 30 yards away and/or your healers aren't having trouble with raid damage, especially if your group is light on melee, it's not as clear a winner. Or where healing can be detrimental, Amber-Shaper's Parasitic Growth for example, other glyphs could be better options.

Don't get me wrong it's a very powerful glyph and in most encounters/situations you're going to want to use it, but I wouldn't necessarily call it Mandatory. So it's not really a "no-brainer" in a strict sense.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby econ21 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:44 am

Gab wrote:That's a little bit absolute. ... it's not really a "no-brainer" in a strict sense.


Well, this is a basics guide so some emphatic language is appropriate when you are dealing with such a powerful glyph in most circumstances:

theckhd wrote:At high Vengeance, it does a LOT of healing - don't be surprised if you outheal some of your regular healers.
Last edited by econ21 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Lastwolf » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:23 am

Is it worth it to switch from SoL on AoE packs though ?


SoL+Battle healer gets me on average about 18k HPS on most boss fights, sometimes more depending on how hard it hits, the dps increase of truth is just meh by comparison.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Treck » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:35 am

Dont forget that SoI scales incredibly well with multiple hits, easily outhealing everybody if it can hit a few targets.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Schroom » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:10 am

I found this item today in wow head: http://www.wowhead.com/item=91803

it seems to be new in 5.1 anyone knows where one can get this and if it would be viably as pot (and pre-pott) for protection paladins (especially if you go for haste>mastery)

I always hate the armor pot so would this one be better in a defensive way? also it would offer a DPS win. would it be even better than a strength pot?
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby daishan » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:54 am

Not sure where to get that from but I use http://www.wowhead.com/item=86125 very nice mid fight with holy avenger and high veng.
I use a strength pot pre fight as I'll be at low veng, the only real, problem with the Kafa is it's a 10 min cd so depending on what fight you're progressing on you'll only get to use it every other attempt.
If it'll beat a strength pot for dps will completely depend on your veng level if I remember Theck's graphs right at 100k veng haste easily beats strength not sure on the break point though.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Schroom » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:14 am

mid fight with holy avenger and high veng.


thank you, that was exactly my idea, we are on mel'jarak and I'm solotanking so my vengeance is through the roof. where do I get the kafa from? :)

allthough the root has only 1 min CD which would be amazing.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby daishan » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:44 am

Get the kafa from a cave in kun lei with yetis in, the wowhead link comments section should have coordinates. The root 1 min cd would allow you to pre pot with it and use mid fight, but it'll be the same as pots in that it gets locked out after the first in combat use. Good luck getting the Kafa :)

Edit: wowhead comment
" I finally found it, the frozen NPC is called Frozen Trail Packer , I uploaded a ss at his page to show what to look for, just go to the bottom of the westmost yeti cave (entrance at 37.5, 78.0 into the slightly larger room and he's on the other side of the little frozen river right in front of you when you enter the room, exact coord of the ice block are35.2, 76.3 He can be manually added to NPCscan for an easier check just by flying over the cave without going inside, his ID is 64227 P.S. and no, it is not related to Lost Adventurer's Belongings , it's another treasure"
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Schroom » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:32 am

thank you very much. those yetis will get extinct this WE I guess :)
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Skye1013 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:05 am

I've just noticed that your "Talents, Glyphs, Basic Builds" section is decidedly lacking in glyphs.
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