5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Sagara » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:05 am

Currently.

SoI being threat-tastic sounds a bit silly, and I wouldn't put it past Blizz to bitch-slap the seal's threat.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Melathys » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:33 am

One thing I miss about Final Fantasy 11's paladin vs WoW's is how in FFXI paladins healed themselves and others for threat. They were basically armored healers, which sounds very paladin-y to me. So using SoL sounds good to me.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Mozen » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:52 am

Maybe I'm just been dumb. I would appreciate if anyone could enlighten me.

We're supposed to cast ShoR for the damage reduction as much as we can. So how come it sits right at the end of the "rotation"? Is it just there as filler? Would there actually be any time when all those other spells are on cooldown while we have a ShoR ready to fire?
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:57 am

It's off-GCD, so really sits outside the priority list.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Mozen » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:53 am

Oh, okay, I see. I've been leveling ret and didn't realize ShoR was off the GCD. Thanks!

Regarding Divine Purpose, it seems to proc quite often. I've even grown to expect it to proc just about every mob I kill. And often I expect it to proc multiple times per mob. I can't count the number of times I've had it proc for three times in a row. The longest streak I had was 8 procs back-to-back as I spam my Templar's Verdict.

Perhaps it could be paired with Harsh Words for, say, farming content?
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby daishan » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:08 am

theckhd wrote:Level 75 talents
The L75 talents are a bit more interesting. We see that Sanctified Wrath is the leader in raw DPS, but not by much. Holy Avenger is within spitting distance thanks to the AS buff. Divine Purpose is still bringing up the rear in terms of raw DPS. The SBU% numbers tell a different story, though. Divine Purpose gives the highest average SotR uptime, with the downside being that it isn't controllable. Holy Avenger is a close second in SotR uptime and has the benefit of being an extra cooldown. Note that the actual uptime observed will be slightly lower than this estimate unless you use HA on cooldown. Sanctified Wrath comes in at a respectable third place in uptime, but also grants the 20% healing taken buff, which offsets that slightly.

Really, any of these three talents are fine as far as survivability. I think that HA and SW are the better choices for control reasons, but DP isn't all that bad either.


That's from Theck's MATLAB thread, it looks like the only benefit to taking Divine Purpose as a tank would be a little less total dmg taken but at the cost of control and lower dps.
I assume that if you used Harsh Words with all of the level 75 talents it would still be Sanctified Wrath > Holy Avenger > Divine Purpose in terms of dps.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Malourne » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:39 pm

Maybe someone could help me out here; I've been looking around and haven't really found an answer that satisfies me. I'm kind of wondering about the whole dodge/parry ratio. I have this macro...

/run d=GetDodgeChance() p=235.5*d/65.631440-((235.5/65.631440)*5.01-3.76) DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Ideal parry for current dodge: "..string.format("%.2f",p))

...which tells me my ideal parry for my current dodge. So does that mean if I'm over the ideal parry I should be reforging parry to dodge?
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby daishan » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:15 am

The way I'm viewing the dodge parry ratio is if you can balance it great but I'm not worrying about a few extra % of parry when it would cost me a more desirable stat hit/exp/haste/mast to get the perfect balance.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Malourne » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:35 am

That's what I figured. Thanks, Daishan.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Worldie » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:22 pm

There's an error in the guide, the 2nd monk buff (Legacy of the white tiger) is 5% crit not might.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Andarael » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:49 am

"ShoR, so long as you have at least 3 HoPo (ideally 5)"
So, probably a dumb question, but why ideally 5? Don't we get the same 3 seconds of damage reduction whether we have 3 HoPo or 5, so letting it go to 5 just increases the chance that we'll waste a HoPo by hitting the wrong button?
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby daishan » Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:01 am

It's so in an emergency you can follow up SotR with a 2nd straight away or a WoG, if you always use SotR at 3 hp you don't have any holy power in reserve for when you take an unexpected spike of dmg.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Andarael » Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:53 am

Ah, makes sense, thanks. I guess if you're a dufus like me that has a hard time keeping track of whether you have 3, 4 or 5 HoPo while doing other tanking duties, since ShoR is off the GCD you could just macro it to each ability in the rotation. That way you'll always cast it at 3 HoPo even if you don't hit the right button, and you would still have the option to do WoG instead. That would help guarantee maximum uptime of the ShoR buff for imperfect tanks. The drawback, as you point out, would be in not necessarily having the HoPo for WoG at the moment you need it. Of course we do have lots of cool downs nowadays...
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:27 am

Get an addon, or work it into WeakAuras (I'd say Power Auras, but that blasted addon STILL hasn't been updated last I'd checked and it won't account for five holy power), and put your Holy Power stacks in the middle of your screen. Looking up to the top left (or wherever you've got it) is horribly inconvenient.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Andarael » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:23 pm

Thanks. Right now I'm using Move Anything to just drag the HoPo necklace thingy down near my buttons, but, well, there's still the dufus factor to deal with :-)
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:57 am

I have a ready-made WeakAuras setup that might make you feel less dufus-y:
http://sacredduty.net/2012/10/23/tankad ... ngs-5-0-5/

(it plays a cash register sound when you hit 5 Holy Power to remind you to use it)
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Andarael » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:38 am

A nice distinctive sound might just cut through the cobwebs - I'll give that a try, thanks. And also thanks for all the work you do, btw.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby DisRuptive1 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:14 am

Any chance you can list the best enchants for each slot? Sure I can go look and find it but I just got a new shield for my alt and want to know what I should put on it.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Schroom » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:38 am

I cna list you the enchants I chose, as I think those are the best alternatives. hoppefully we launch a discussion and maybe I learn something new ^^

Shoulders: inscription ox thingy: 300 Stamina 100 Dodge
cape: 200 Stamina
Chest: 300 Stamina
Bracers: 170 Mastery
Gauntlets: 170 Expertise OR Sha Armor kit (150 Stamina) OR 170 Mastery OR 170 Haste. where I chose Expertise to be the better option right now.
Belt: Beltbuckle
Legs: built by leatherworkers: 430 Stamina and 165 Dodge
Boots: Pandaren's step (140 Mastery + 8% movement speed) OR Sha Armor Kit (150 Stamina) OR Greater Haste (175 Haste) I chose Pandaren's step as the movement speed increase is always very lovely in raids. but I don't know if it stacks with any other movement increase the paladin got already by default. if this isn't the case, I would rather take the Sha Armor Kit for some juicy stamina, or greater haste, depending on gear level and content you do.
Shield: 170 parry
Weapon: I found windsong to be the preferable choice, but also colossus seems to eb an option as soon as 5.1 hits. the weapon chain is an option as well as it gives a nice Expertise push.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:48 am

Shoulders: 300 Stam 100 dodge
Cloak: 200 Stam
Chest: 300 Stam (noticing a pattern here?)
Bracers: 170 Mastery (no competitive stamina option)
Gauntlets: 150 Stam (Sha armor kit)
Belt: Buckle up with a Stam gem
Legs: 430 stam 165 dodge
Boots: 150 Stam (Sha armor kit). Pandaren's Step doesn't stack with Pursuit of Justice (or either of our other L15 talents, I think).
Shield: 170 parry (no competitive stam option)
Weapon: I've been using Colossus. The weapon chain is a good potential alternative. Windsong gives you approximately 600 points worth of "stuff" when time-averaged, but it's got the downsides of not being controllable and granting stats that are either useless (crit) or weak compared our most desired stats (Stam/hit/exp >> haste/mastery). IMO the weapon chain is a better enchant than Windsong. River's Song is going to be ~750 dodge rating after time averaging, which is far weaker than the weapon chain if you're going with a control strategy.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby knaughty » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:53 pm

I'll try and get some time this weekend to fold in the updates and corrections.

Thanks to all for providing them.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Schroom » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:05 am

thanks Theck.
I gues choosing between stam and Exp also depends on the content one is doing. I'm still in normal mode so I prefer Exp sometimes over full out stamina... but I'm still undecided if I should drop Exp hardcap for full out stamina...

and what about gems. I'm still undecided between
yellow: hit or hit/stam
blue: full stam, hit/stam, exp/stam
red: full expertise, expertise/stam
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby DisRuptive1 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:02 pm

theckhd wrote:Enchants:
Stam


Why enchant so much stamina? Are bosses still able to three shot us?
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:38 pm

More or less, yes. Many of them hit for 200k after armor mitigation. Some of them have even higher burst (25H Feng hits you for 200k twice every 2 seconds during the shield phase). However, Stamina is a strong stat even against bosses that can't 3-shot you.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Robob » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:41 am

Reading this post upon coming back to wow made me all hot and bothered, good to see you are still around knaughty & theckhd!
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