6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

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Re: 5.4 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:34 am

ramboschox wrote:Having your last 2 posts re-read, that stays a very convincing argument: Don´t reduce your own potential by 70% to do some elses job a tiny bit better.


Yeah, it's the same argument for why the tanking cloak is a better choice than the DPS one during progression. And as always, it's situational - if you're in danger so rarely that the cloak/SoI/whatever has almost no chance of helping, then shifting that excess survivability into better performance in other areas (DPS, raid healing) makes sense.

It's just another incarnation of the standard survivability vs. DPS balance that every tank has to evaluate for themselves based on their particular circumstances. Tanks that end up overgearing the fight from pull #1 (either due to encounter tuning, 10 vs. 25 boss damage amounts, or what have you) will rarely feel the need to pile on extra survivability for progression.
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Re: 5.4 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby Taeron » Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:24 pm

I've seen a lot of top end tankadins using Sacred Shield again (and with that, being able to ignore the 4 piece set bonus). Is that just a boss to boss decision or is Sacred Shield an overall valid option (or even better?). Thing is, I ended up with some heroic (and heroic warforged) non tier items and now I'm staring at the 4 piece set bonus thinking if it's okey to break it and take Sacred Shield (or even break it and keep Eternal Flame).

Thanks for your input!
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Re: 5.4 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:24 pm

None of the simulations I've run suggest that Sacred Shield is competitive this tier. EF uniformly beats out SS in Simcraft, with or without 4T16. That said, if you're not reliable about keeping Eternal Flame up, SS can be a better choice. There could also be fight-specific mechanics that makes it more attractive for certain encounters (I use it for Paragons, for example).
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Re: 5.4 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby Newsom » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:26 am

Taeron wrote:I've seen a lot of top end tankadins using Sacred Shield again (and with that, being able to ignore the 4 piece set bonus). Is that just a boss to boss decision or is Sacred Shield an overall valid option (or even better?). Thing is, I ended up with some heroic (and heroic warforged) non tier items and now I'm staring at the 4 piece set bonus thinking if it's okey to break it and take Sacred Shield (or even break it and keep Eternal Flame).

Thanks for your input!


Boss to boss thing. The only fight where you really want Eternal Flame is Malkorok. For the last 3 bosses, I found they hit so damn hard during progress that an absorb was more useful. For the rest, techincally EF is better but it honestly doesn't matter much.

Now during farm I'm just lazy and don't bother speccing EF for the early bosses since the only ones that can kill me are the last 3.

If you're progressing and have access to 4 set, I'd definitely use Ef until Siegecrafter. I would have loved to have it on Malkorok, that fight drove me insane trying to keep high vengeance 5 stack flames on both me and the other tank.
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Re: 5.4 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby samsara » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:39 am

the only boss i used sacred shield this content so far was klaxxi heroic,

it was more a matter of one shots , but on the other hand we play with 2 prot paladins and karoz/rikkal can hit hard at the end of the fight and unlike other tanking classes like monks we only have a short active mitigation window and so the absorb seemed a bit safer as the heal. I don't matter that it looked worse on the meters, it just worked for us as we killed the boss the same evening we both switched to sacred shield. It was really anoying getting to the last 3 mobs with 23-25 people and whiping due to a tankdeath
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Re: 5.4 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby golfinguy » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:15 am

Newsom wrote:If you're progressing and have access to 4 set, I'd definitely use Ef...


As I'm still building up my ilvl I've found the same. At the lower levels SS seems better when I look at my logs.

I'm sure as I progress (been away for 2+ years) and increase my haste EF will become better. And certainly once I get my 4 piece.
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:15 pm

I think this is updated completely now. Feel free to point out flaws/inaccuracies/disagreements.
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Re:

Postby Ironshield » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:47 am

theckhd wrote:...
To give you some idea of numbers: Eternal Flame's (EF) base heal is exactly the same as WoG, so the HoT is the only added benefit of the talent. But the HoT only provides about 1/3 as much healing per second as Sacred Shield grants in absorption per second. And absorbs are already preferable to heals, so this tips the scales pretty heavily in EF's favor. The days of abusing Vengeance to be self-sufficient are over.
...

Typo?
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:16 pm

Yup.
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Re:

Postby Thels » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:36 am

theckhd wrote:[url=://www.wowhead.com/spell=152263]Empowered Seals[/url]

Broken link, misses "http", or is it "https"?

theckhd wrote:Glyph of Harsh Words - This glyph is actually a pretty significant DPS increase, believe it or not. WoG's heals for 264.6% of our spellpower, but Shield of the Righteous only does 192% of attack power. Of course, you need to give up your mitigation for it. Doesn't work with Glyph of Word of Glory or the T16 4-piece. Exclusive with Protector of the Innocent and Word of Glory glyphs.

Glyph of Word of Glory - Grants a buff increasing damage by 3% per holy power when you WoG, lasts 6 seconds. A significant DPS loss over just using SotR, but it makes up for some of the DPS you lose if you have to WoG yourself. Note that it doesn't work if you're using WoG offensively (i.e. Harsh Words). Exclusive with Harsh Words and Protector of the Innocent.

A bit double. Now that the glyphs are actually exclusive, the comments that they don't work well together can probably be removed.

Also, a lot of Glyph links broke. Most likely because these Glyphs are now auto learned and no longer available from scribes, meaning there's no item to represent them.
Last edited by Thels on Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Re:

Postby degre » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:51 am

Thels wrote:
theckhd wrote:[url=://www.wowhead.com/spell=152263]Empowered Seals[/url]

Broken link, misses "http", or is it "https"?

theckhd wrote:Glyph of Harsh Words - This glyph is actually a pretty significant DPS increase, believe it or not. WoG's heals for 264.6% of our spellpower, but Shield of the Righteous only does 192% of attack power. Of course, you need to give up your mitigation for it. Doesn't work with Glyph of Word of Glory or the T16 4-piece. Exclusive with Protector of the Innocent and Word of Glory glyphs.

A bit double.

Also, a lot of Glyph links broke. Most likely because these Glyphs are now auto learned and no longer available from scribes, meaning there's no item to represent them.

There is still an item, it just that is a new item and as a result changed ID, example, this is the new Alabaster Shield.
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:47 am

Think I fixed all of those, thanks.
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby Skye1013 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:47 pm

Two things... your tier 4 talents don't have cooldowns listed (I'm assuming they have cds based on the abilities) and is Sanctified Wrath passive?
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:07 pm

Only hand of purity has a cooldown, and it's 30 seconds. Clemency and Unbreakable Spirit are passive, as is Sanctified Wrath.
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby Fori » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:52 pm

So I'm sorry if this is written somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. When using Seraphim, what's the optimal/recommended rotation? How conservative should I be with HP during the 15 seconds it's not up? Do I chain CDs to provide cover during that time? Basically tl;dr is how do I Seraphim properly?
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby ZorKesh » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:10 am

Fori wrote:So I'm sorry if this is written somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. When using Seraphim, what's the optimal/recommended rotation? How conservative should I be with HP during the 15 seconds it's not up? Do I chain CDs to provide cover during that time? Basically tl;dr is how do I Seraphim properly?

this -> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33728
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby Fori » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:41 pm

ZorKesh wrote:
Fori wrote:So I'm sorry if this is written somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. When using Seraphim, what's the optimal/recommended rotation? How conservative should I be with HP during the 15 seconds it's not up? Do I chain CDs to provide cover during that time? Basically tl;dr is how do I Seraphim properly?

this -> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33728


Thanks, that answers some of my questions, but there still doesn't seem to be a consensus on what rotation to use, what the math is on the different rotations and if it's actually good or not. The second to last post suggests banking HP during Seraphim to cover its downtime with SotR, has anyone done math on whether this is worth it or not? There just seems to be people asking each other questions in that thread with few (or no) real answers provided.
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby Padim » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:22 am

Any plans to update for 6.1. I know there are a few glyphs no longer exist for prot (Alabaster Shield and Holy Wrath(?))
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby golfinguy » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:45 pm

Padim wrote:Any plans to update for 6.1. I know there are a few glyphs no longer exist for prot (Alabaster Shield and Holy Wrath(?))


Theck is on a hiatus - real life and all that. Probably no updates forthcoming.

The Pally Tanking community has been so dependent upon his efforts for so long its a large void right now. The job he did was fantastic - so thorough that few tried to rival him or duplicate prot work. Now we need some to step up.
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Re: 6.0 Talent and Glyph Guide

Postby Schroom » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:13 am

his current work is still valid for 6.1.

sacred duty was not supposed to go down and he said on twitter that he is looking into that:

meanwhile you can access sacred duty over here: [url]sacredduty.rhida.ch[/url]
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