How does hand of salvation work?

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How does hand of salvation work?

Postby econ21 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:40 am

I confess I have neglected this tool, partly as I thought it only lasted for a 10 seconds or so. However, I have read that it permanently reduces threat, which makes it more interesting. So, how does it work?

Places a Hand on the party or raid member, reducing their total threat by 2% every 1 sec for 10 sec.


I infer that after 10 sec, it will have reduced the threat of a member by 20%. And will persist until you place it on someone else. (Does it persist out of combat?]

I guess my question is what is "total threat"?[1] Is it basically a function of all the dps they have done at the time the spell is cast, extending 10 seconds after casting? Or does it also lower the threat they will create by future dpsing? In otherwords, does it make the target always create a flow of 20% less threat or does it only reduce by 20% the stock of threat they have generated prior to the spell taking full effect?

The reason for asking is that I am wondering when the best time to cast it is - would it be ok to cast it on the fury warrior prior to the pull - rather like prot warriors used to cast vigilance to lower threat? Or should I wait a bit into the fight for him to have done some heavy dps? I'd much prefer it if casting prior to the pull was ok, as the start of a fight tends to be a little chaotic.

[1]I know what threat is in the context of a taunt - you get the threat of the person you are taunting off. So if that applies here, I guess an out of combat casting of the hand is dumb - they have not got any threat to be reduced.
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Re: How does hand of salvation work?

Postby Iminmmnni » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:57 am

I infer that after 10 sec, it will have reduced the threat of a member by 20%. And will persist until you place it on someone else.

Correct. It's a straight threat drop. If you cast on someone with 100k threat and they /dance for 10s, they will have 80k at the end of it. The threat drop is permanent and the threat does not return.

(Does it persist out of combat?]

No. Threat is a measure of how grumpy an NPC is with each player and determines who the NPC targets. Out of combat, there's no NPC to be grumpy so there's no threat. If you salv someone out of combat it does nothing.

It's not very useful at the start of the fight as 20% of not-much threat isn't much threat (and you're probably better off using the GCD to taunt+hit the boss instead). It's not so useful well into the fight either as tanking threat is great once vengeance is stacked up so in theory. If you're 30+ seconds into the fight and a dps is creeping up on you then use it but unfortunately, it doesn't help with those pesky mages with their 100k threat on the pull.

TDLR: it's 20% threat drop that only really useful if there's a tank threat drop or you have a dps that outgears you.
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Re: How does hand of salvation work?

Postby Heracles » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:27 pm

Iminmmnni wrote:
unfortunately, it doesn't help with those pesky mages with their 100k threat on the pull.


Simple... Tank like a biatch til said pesky Mage hits 125-130% of your aggro (ranged pull aggro at 130%, melee 110%) then simply Hand of Reckoning and Salv him.

I do this on a regular basis on my Guild's best Mage who regularly pulls bat shit crazy DPS and TPS (probably 60k DPS minimum and 100k TPS +) on the first 30 secs of the fight and what this effectively does it go "I'll have a lovely free (massive) threat boost off of you Mr.Mage, now get the fook down there with the rest of the slacks while I pull even further ahead now my Vengeance has started to really kick in."

Timed well a taunt and salv combo in a raid environment is win, pure win.
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Re: How does hand of salvation work?

Postby Chasey » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:30 pm

Good stuff to know. I was also unaware of the perm 20% decrease.
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Re: How does hand of salvation work?

Postby theckhd » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:14 am

It's also worth noting that it's not as simple as a flat 20% decrease because it does so in 10 small ticks. It's actually only around 18%.

Assume the player starts with X threat. The first tick removes 2% of X, leaving the player with (1-0.02)*X threat. The second tick removes 2% of that, or dropping the overall threat to (1-0.02)*(1-0.02)*X. By the 10th tick, you're left with X*(1-0.02)^10. The net reduction is 1-(1-0.02)^10, or 18.29%.

In addition, you're producing extra threat during that period. Let's say you generate Y threat between ticks. After the second tick, this is reduced to Y*(1-0.02). By the third tick, you have Y+Y(1-0.02), which is then reduced again to give Y*(1-0.02)^2+Y*(1-0.02). This ends up giving you a series of the form

Y*sum((1-0.02)^n, n=1:9).

The net reduction is just 1-Y*sum((1-0.02)^n, n=1:9)/(9*Y), or 9.48% of the threat produced while HoSalv is active.

In short, HoSalv reduces the threat you already had by about 18%, but only reduces the threat you generate during the effect by around 10%.
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