how much hit do we need

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how much hit do we need

Postby rekai » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:03 am

how much hit do we need?

thanks
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby fuzzygeek » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:10 am

0.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Jeremoot » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:21 pm

If you can successfully obtain 0 hit on your gear, that's ideal.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby nyxeos » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:54 am

As stated above 0, however if you don't feel comfortable with this, a percent or two is more than enough. Yes yes, I know 0 is "ideal" but some just like a little cushion :P
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Aerron » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:40 pm

nyxeos wrote:As stated above 0, however if you don't feel comfortable with this, a percent or two is more than enough. Yes yes, I know 0 is "ideal" but some just like a little cushion :P


If you're looking for a "cushion" to make you feel safer somehow, Expertise would be a better bet. Costs you less and you gain more.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Koatanga » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:33 pm

But expertise doesn't stop my Avenger's Shield from flying off into space on the pull (doh!).

I don't stack any hit, but I really hate it when my AS misses, particularly on the pull.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby nyxeos » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:36 am

Aerron wrote:
nyxeos wrote:As stated above 0, however if you don't feel comfortable with this, a percent or two is more than enough. Yes yes, I know 0 is "ideal" but some just like a little cushion :P


If you're looking for a "cushion" to make you feel safer somehow, Expertise would be a better bet. Costs you less and you gain more.



Yes, it has been proven by several people that expertise is better for threat than hit up to the soft cap, then drops like a rock, however the question was about hit and not expertise, so I chose to limit my response as such.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby trebla57 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:07 am

I think I'm gonna quit WoW. I mean, we are suppose to just accept that our spells are going to miss because instead of investing in hit rating to get capped, we have to put it on mastery, this is so lame. I've been hit capped for awhile and I refuse to sit there and watch my shield or Hotr miss just because some stupid wow game designer didn't know what to do about tanks and hit rating.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:11 am

trebla57 wrote:I think I'm gonna quit WoW. I mean, we are suppose to just accept that our spells are going to miss because instead of investing in hit rating to get capped, we have to put it on mastery, this is so lame. I've been hit capped for awhile and I refuse to sit there and watch my shield or Hotr miss just because some stupid wow game designer didn't know what to do about tanks and hit rating.

This is hardly something new in game. No one tried to actively get hit on their gear in BC and in Wrath, it wasn't till about ToC/ICC that tanks actively tried to get some hit on their gear (via gems or enchants).

And also, good on you. You stay hit capped and make your healers suffer because you insist on not seeing your spells miss. Kudos to you for actively working against your healers just because you want big numbers. Seriously... wtf dude.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Epimer » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:18 am

Do they still have that drop-down box for "Reason for cancelling" when you go to unsubscribe? If so, they should definitely add "some stupid wow game designer didn't know what to do about tanks and hit rating"
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Treck » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:53 pm

trebla57 wrote:I think I'm gonna quit WoW. I mean, we are suppose to just accept that our spells are going to miss because instead of investing in hit rating to get capped, we have to put it on mastery, this is so lame. I've been hit capped for awhile and I refuse to sit there and watch my shield or Hotr miss just because some stupid wow game designer didn't know what to do about tanks and hit rating.

Thats a pretty useless arguement to put out as a reason your quitting wow, feels more like your looking for a reason to quit the game tbh.
Hit is NOT needed to maintain threat.
Thus it is not a tanking stat.
If you wanna do more dps, you can get hit, if you dont wanna see your abilities miss, you can get hit.
But you do not NEED it to be tanking efficiently.

If you want your shield not to miss, get some hit rating.
Going for full hit compared to mastery wont make you a useless tank, you will still be able to tank.
And if your gonna enjoy tanking with hit rather than mastery, then thats up to you.

You want something you dont need, and wanna quit the game cuz you dont get it?
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Raeli » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:54 am

I must admit it is annoying, frustrating even at times to see a string of several misses in a row. The occasional one here and there is okay, but it's so damn annoying to see three CS miss in a row. While I don't do it, I do wish that being hit and expertise were also in some way tied very deeply to our survivability that capping them made sense, but of course that will never happen. Considering that they're not even needed to maintain threat though, yeah, you just gotta suck it up and deal with those misses :P
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby trebla57 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:02 pm

I just finished reforging my gear from having it give me extra hit to giving me extra mastery. I gained only like 4 percent block, 3 percent parry (some parry had to be kept cause it had mastery already in that gear), and 1% dodge. I used to tank troll heroics using my hit capped reforged gear with no problems and I don't think this'll make that much of a difference but if you guys say I'm suppose to do it this way I guess I'll try it, besides, my spells still don't miss in dungeons so I don't care :D

I guess my next step is to get rid of seals of the pure and hallowed ground and put those 4 points into something more useful... any ideas?
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:13 pm

Seals of the pure is fine - the only other choice is Eternal Glory, which isn't very attractive.

Hard to say what you should move points into without seeing your spec.

It's also relevant to know what you are running. if you are just running heroiocs, then gear and spec for that. If you are tanking raid bosses, then your priorities will be a bit different.

On this forum people will mostly be talking about raiding.

I find in heroics that I don't take enough damage to get Vengeance moving, so I need to find threat in other places, or lose some of my tank gear. Expertise and hit are nice to have then. In raids, however, Vengeance is easy to get and so far overpowers every other form of threat that tanks stack nothing but survival stats.

Same goes for spec. I am back to using a WoG-centric build because I find that I need the extra healing when going upstairs on Beth'tilac or kiting Shannox. I wouldn't even consider it for instancing, and in fact am going to lose my off-spec and go Prot/Prot since I have to run scrub stuff to top up my Valor each week.

There's a fundamental difference in tanking heroics to tanking raids. In heroics, we're back to the go-go-go AoE-fest that was Wrath. In raids, people either respect Vengeance ramping, or they pull the boss and get growled at for screwing up boss positioning.

You should spec and gear accordingly.

Having said that, mastery is still king for both. In raids you need it to survive, and in heroics you need it compensate for the pug healer who may or may not be any good.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby trebla57 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:04 am

I will be doing some raiding so I will probably have to go with getting rid of all my excess hit rating. I guess I'll just have to learn to deal with less aggro when I do dungeons.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Hiroko » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:14 am

... or build two sets of gear, one for raiding and one for dungeons, which is what I do, and have done for years. When you get an upgrade, think about maybe moving the bit you replace to a threat set for heroics, maybe with a reforge or re-enchant. It's not like you need a full set of 378 gear for troll dungeons.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby econ21 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:08 am

And it is much easier to get threat capped for 5 mans (at least trash) than for raids: gear against level 85 mobs rather than L88 ones. Getting 5% hit and 20 expertise requires only a modest sacrifice in survivability - use a hit trinket instead of a stamina one; wear a couple of tank pieces with unreforged expertise and you should be set.

I know not all mobs in 5 mans are level 85, but on the tougher ones - notably bosses - I don't find threat an issue (maybe it's vengenance, maybe it's that with only one target, dps are hitting what you hit).
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Iminmmnni » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:14 pm

econ21 wrote:wear a couple of tank pieces with unreforged expertise

You can go one step further and reforge your old tank gear into exp/hit for your threat/heroics set. If you're eng, you can even regem your hat cogwheels to exp/hit (or make a second hat).
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Treck » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:41 am

Now that i think of it, it WOULD make sense to have something that reduces the boss's chance to parry or smth.
As a tank your prolly pretty used to having to hit a boss in the face, after all those hours, maybe making you better att hitting where the boss wont parry?
Still not saying we need it, but it kinda could make sense atleast?
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Calleana » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:02 am

I find hit sets also very helpful in raid fights like Rhyolith/ Beth'tilac where you have a lot of adds flying about and it is increasingly important that the moves you use to collect them actually connect as your taunts are sometimes on cooldown from being used for something else.

More than 1 set of gear seems like the optimal solution, then the decision comes down to what situations require me to have a bit more hit or expertise?
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby masterpoobaa » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:59 pm

Don't Forget hit/exp food/elixirs.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby Macforge » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:20 am

I have been thinking about wearing some hit and expertise gear since I don't raid and only do heroics. Isn't there a hit trinket from the Tol Barad vendor? You could just wear that when doing 5-man content.
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Re: how much hit do we need

Postby RedAces » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:01 am

Only for casters...
but License to Slay and Heart of Rage are really sexy for a threatset.
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