Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

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Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby greenman » Thu May 26, 2011 11:45 am

Hello i was reading all topics on maintankadin and elitistjerks so far i have to write this topic.The problem is that i loose aggro to people with gear il 370+,quite usually to furry warrs and frost dk's i open AoE fights with AS,hotr,cons,hotr,judge,hotr,inquisition i tryed a lot of rotations to fix it but i cant find out if its something with my rotation or DPS tps
Edit:here's my armory link:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/rajbenn/advanced
edit2:after working on hit rating and expertise the problem seems to disappear but if you have any suggestions tell it;)
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby boneyjellyfish » Thu May 26, 2011 3:24 pm

You could try starting off with a divine plea -> inquisition and then start with your rotation as normal. You could also try glyphing Consecrate to get a slight AOE dps boost. Also useful would be to tell your DPS to focus down your current target.
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Fri May 27, 2011 5:00 pm

I run with more hit in 5 mans, players dps always spikes early in fights (like arcane mages)... In raids it's less of an issue.. In 5 mans... Having a few things to swap for hit helps
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby lythac » Fri May 27, 2011 6:10 pm

greenman wrote:The problem is that i loose aggro to people with gear il 370+,quite usually to furry warrs and frost dk's


You need more practice playing your Paladin and they outgear you.

Someone in 370+ should be at the top of their game it is unlikely they have been carried to that gear level given loot distribution systems. Their DPS is going to be high.

Seeing as you are 1/12 and 0/13 and ilvl 355 of course they are going to pull aggro off you. Rotation is one thing, but hitting mobs first and controling them before the DPS is Key. You probably just aren't fast enough.



I find it odd you are grouped with players that high, they are not in your guild, highly unlikely for them to be in RDF (and for you to encounter enough of them) and if they were in your main chars guild you would have spoken to them.



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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby Awyndel » Mon May 30, 2011 12:07 pm

Just spam Hotr/whatever and keep inq up for more then 3 targets.

Also get a nameplate addon with shows threat, like tidy plates or aloft, and taunt those if they change.

It's aoe. Ofc you're gonna lose agro to spike damage on the pull, just taunt it back and do the right rotation, they will stick on you.

Rogues also help.
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby Koatanga » Mon May 30, 2011 4:04 pm

lythac wrote:I find it odd you are grouped with players that high, they are not in your guild, highly unlikely for them to be in RDF (and for you to encounter enough of them) and if they were in your main chars guild you would have spoken to them.


It happens. I got a random ZG run with a 368 arcane mage (I'm 359) who was going full-tilt on every pull (32k average DPS). I played yo-yo with a couple of single-target trash mobs then figured it just wasn't worth the hassle if this guy wasn't going to behave, so I found something better to do.

I was the 2nd tank they had (first one left after the 2nd trash pull), and I could definitely see why.

Highly-geared people are sometimes the worst players to run with.
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby benebarba » Mon May 30, 2011 4:21 pm

even at the same gear level, a DPSer who knows their optimal rotation/priority probably will be able to rip aggro off on the pull. The higher their gear the worse this gets, and some classes which can have crazy crit/proc strings can do it *very* fast. The easiest way to avoid this is to mark targets and tell folks to give you a few seconds to get the mobs solid.

If you have a hunter or a rogue, they should be using their tools to transfer aggro to you on the pull. Classes like mages and priests should know when to fade to reduce aggro.

DKs and warriors don't have such tools, sadly - they have to know to wait just long enough for you to get a threat lead. For example, a warrior who charges a mob and then lays into it just as you Avenger's shield and are still running toward it is really asking to get eaten. Even more so when it isn't the marked main target. Similarly for a DK who deathgrips one randomly. I tend to let PUG DPS get a freebie or two, but if it becomes a habit I let em get eaten (figuring they can handle it) or taunt when I get around to it (rather than immediately as I would a healer who gets aggro). But my guild healers are even more strict about 'you spank, you tank' than I am. YMMV.

Since you already looked to your stats and your rotation I would just make sure you aren't taking too long to get things rolling (i.e. make sure you have something going on pretty much every GCD once you get into melee range) and that your targets are marked and folks are following the kill order (even if you are using AOE, there should be a main target and kill order). If it won't mess with the rest of the pull toss a taunt out and give a polite reminder to mind your aggro/targets and to give you a bit more lead time.
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby Hrobertgar » Tue May 31, 2011 9:14 am

I sometimes run my 356 ilvl arcane mage thru the non-Z heroics for cloth drops (tailor), and I admit I can pull threat off the tank if I'm focusing something down. However, I am carefull, I only do this against casters, and I use silence on them. I can generally solo a caster add then focus down the tank's targets one by one without taking excessive dmg. Mana shield also blows anything back away from me before it can drop me and the slow means before they make it back I have finished them.

The problem is, if I attack the tank's main target and get 2-3 arcane blast crits in a row, there is nothing he can do anyways except taunt, and if someone else is targetting something, it will be a cluster for certain. So If there is a caster mob and there is no poly marked, then I obliterate the caster first, then help with the rest. If there is no cc, then reducing numbers is usually very important considering typical gearing for the non-Z heroics.

If there is cc marked, or the tank allows me to poly, then there are few enough targets to focus that I there is less of a risk of a cluster from each dps going after a separate target.
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby masterpoobaa » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:48 pm

Another option to consider:

Once you are above i346 geared (which you are), consider building a specific dungeon gearset thats Hit/Expertise capped. For heroics you only need 6% hit and 24 expertise, So you don't lose much in the way of dodge/parry/mastery.

Being able to *always* hit mobs in a heroic dungeon makes ones life farm smoother. Nothing like a string of misses/dodges/parries on a pull to make life hell.
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby Rockard » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:01 pm

When I am tanking heroic dungeons, I find only a few classes will pull threat off me. Warriors, dk's and mages. Instead of telling every group to attack my target I assist off them. Generally its only 1 player who will be constantly ripping a mob off me in the first 3 seconds, so i have them on focus and assist off them.

Use your taunts alot and assist off the player pulling threat you should do fine.
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby dirtypally » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:31 pm

i use a macro that does two taunts, either hand of reckoning or righteous defense. either way, the either 8 second? cd will be caught up. If those dont work and someone important is about to go down, then you aways have your bubble taunt. Also, I always forget about the hand of salvation. im sure that can be of some help too.
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby Arjuna » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:27 am

I am having similar problems in dungeons with super-geared players just going 110% from the start, but I noticed something else. Is the HP generation dependant on hit now? I have been away from the game for six months and was surprised when I started getting no HP when I used CS/HotR...
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby Dantriges » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:16 am

Yes it´s based on hitting the target. So if you miss, the mob dodges or parries, no HP will be generated by CS/HotR.

Not sure about AS though.
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby Metherlance » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:16 pm

Dantriges wrote:Yes it´s based on hitting the target. So if you miss, the mob dodges or parries, no HP will be generated by CS/HotR.

Not sure about AS though.


Grand Crusader's HP comes even if it doesn't hit.
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Re: Hero dungeons AoE threat issues

Postby Macforge » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:10 am

Some overgeared DPS think it is fun to try and grab aggro away from the tank, and it drives me crazy. Are you marking your primary target with a skull? Do this every pull and see if they are attacking a different target. Ask them to attack skull and if they refuse, ask your healer in a whisper to not heal them when they grab aggro.
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