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Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

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Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

Postby Gaxby » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:44 am

I need some advice on how to get the most out of the "cheat death" proc that prevents a raid wipe once every 3 minutes.

Ever since the Blizzard changed Ardent Defender from a passive cool-down to an active one, I've rarely see this potential cool-down proc in my Raids. Now, it might just be that my healers are good enough to heal me when I'm about to die, but I may also be using this cool-down too liberally hence not utilizing the strength of the "free death".

I understand different bosses have different mechanics that can kill you in different ways, but what are your guidelines of activating Ardent Defender? Do you use it at when you are at a certain percentage of your health (with the exception of Chimaeron)? Do you use it when you know when a spike is coming like your other cool-downs? Or do you use it when you are as close to 1 health as possible to make every single "cheat death" count?
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Re: Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

Postby Epimer » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:46 am

I rarely intentionally use the Cheat Death portion. I treat it as another 20% damage reduction cooldown and that's about it.

The exceptions are on P3 of Twilight Ascendant Council if one healer gets Gravity whatevered, and (the big one) Chimaeron when I'm the Double Attack tank and he casts Massacre after gaining the Double Attack buff but before actually using it (because there's a good chance the next hit will be 3 melee hits at once, which hurts).
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Re: Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

Postby inthedrops » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:27 am

Epimer wrote:I rarely intentionally use the Cheat Death portion. I treat it as another 20% damage reduction cooldown and that's about it.

The exceptions are on P3 of Twilight Ascendant Council if one healer gets Gravity whatevered, and (the big one) Chimaeron when I'm the Double Attack tank and he casts Massacre after gaining the Double Attack buff but before actually using it (because there's a good chance the next hit will be 3 melee hits at once, which hurts).


To the OP, in most circumstances I think of it as a 3 minute version of Divine Protection. However, for some fights it still has value in the cheat death mechanic.

As Epimer mentioned, if you're tanking in P3 on Council, and one of your primary healers gets picked up for Gravity well, that's a great time to be have it available.

While I agree with Epimer on Chim as well, I think exactly when to use it there depends on your raid composition and overall cooldown strategy. For example, on 25 heroic I use it after the first stack of Break lands while tanking during a Feud as this is the point when Double Attacks are the most deadly and can potentially one shot you (health wise).

Although Blizzard decided they didn't like it, I also used Ardent Defender on 25 Heroic Maloriak to completely soak Scorching Blast during Red Phase. Can't do that anymore but hey, it was awesome to take 2 million damage and keep going :)

Although I don't tank adds on Nefarian, I'd think it would be a good cooldown to use just before a crackle in P3 if for some reason your health is seriously low when the crackle emote starts.

The amount of life AD restores now is so small that it's really not worth trying to save it for that exact moment when you're at 10k health or something. It's much better used to prevent you from getting to 10k in the first place.
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Re: Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

Postby Treck » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:30 pm

inthedrops wrote:Although Blizzard decided they didn't like it, I also used Ardent Defender on 25 Heroic Maloriak to completely soak Scorching Blast during Red Phase. Can't do that anymore but hey, it was awesome to take 2 million damage and keep going :)

What?
I guess you mean that GS cant help you for the others anymore?
AD still work tho, but sure since you wont be able to take more than one its not that valid of a strat anymore.

inthedrops wrote:The amount of life AD restores now is so small that it's really not worth trying to save it for that exact moment when you're at 10k health or something. It's much better used to prevent you from getting to 10k in the first place.

This is the biggest reason why AD is just not that good anymore.
Theres few bosses that have mechanics that will oneshot you on the spot, and wont do much dmg to you the next few sec.
If your getting constantly attacked, then absorbing the killing blow and healing you up to 15% hp wont save you much, its obviously a lot better than not saving you at all, but it makes it harder to anticipate when to use it.
Its obviously better than just a 20% DP but i still feel its a bit weak for a 3min CD.
Guardian of Ancient kings almost makes you immortal as long as its up.
But we got LoH as sort of a CD, so i dont know, its not that bad i guess.
Id still want to get back the procc visual of AD as it was before, so you can see when it actually proccs.

All in all, theres not many fights where i find myself out of CDs to use, altho i wouldnt mind more CDs for fights like Sinestra ^^

Epimer wrote:Chimaeron when I'm the Double Attack tank and he casts Massacre after gaining the Double Attack buff but before actually using it (because there's a good chance the next hit will be 3 melee hits at once, which hurts).

Massacre removes the Dubble Attack, this is a non issue nowadays.
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Re: Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

Postby inthedrops » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:05 pm

Treck wrote:What?
I guess you mean that GS cant help you for the others anymore?



Whoops. I think all I meant to say is that it threw a wrench into that strategy so we don't use it now. Thanks for the correction.
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Re: Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

Postby Gaxby » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:14 am

So where is Ardent Defender on the Cooldown priority ranking?

In raids, you want to have a cooldown ready for every "big" attack. I assuming having a 1 minute cooldown, DP should be on cooldown and be used when it's available while GAK effectively doubles your health, making it ideal for the most lethal attacks. Should AD be used when DP is on cooldown? When DP and GAK are both on cooldown? Last resort?

And not to derail this threat too much, but what about Divine Plea for the WoG heal (which is kind of irrelevant once the 20-seconds nerf is implemented next patch).
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Re: Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

Postby Treck » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:37 am

Since they fixed the DP not reducing GoAK reduction, i run with DP glyphed most of the time.
Meaning if you wanna reduce the physical dmg slightly, AD, if you dont wanna die the next 18sec, use guardian.
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Re: Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

Postby Jaitee » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:35 am

ive really gotten myself into the bad habit of saving DP to much ill regularly go an entire raid without using it just trying to wait for the perfect moment unfortunately what would have been a great CD in wrath with the amount of predictable huge damage abilities bosses had isnt as impressive in cata where deaths are usually slower and the cheat death portion of the ability really only comes into play during situations where all your doing is delaying your death will the boss next lands an attack (ie healers all dead/oom situations)

on chimeron the ability shines though popping it as he gets into phase 2 is great! last week i chained it with a guardian spirit (still didnt last overly long due too bad luck on avoidance) but we still managed to get the achieve for only 2 people dieing


but while its not the greatest CD in the world im not complaining its not like us pallys exactly lack CDs

i think i just need to start using it like people have suggested purely as a damage reduction CD!
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Re: Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:45 pm

I find most encounters have a mechanic on a ~61-65 second timer

I keep DP Glyphed for magic, and rotate GOTAK, AD, and Dodge trinket for anything else

My anti-magic is DP, Tol barad +400 resist trinket (which is ~45% avg. reduction with resistance aura, so a 'slightly less DP')


I never use AD for survival, with the exception of Chimaeron --- Start full health, GOTAK... after the first attack or two I use Dodge trinket.... as i get close to sub-10k, AD (especially if a double attack qued)..

If i survive after that, I divine shield, rocket boot to the far corner, drop DS, make him run a bit to get to me..


Think it's the *only* time I regularly save AD for the special mechanic, otherwise it feels very very weak for a 3 min CD, so I don't save it.
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Re: Making Good Use of Ardent Defender Procs

Postby Gaxby » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:44 am

Alright guys. I think you've all convinced me that AD's cheat death is weak right now. I'll try out the new glyphed DP cool-down rotation. Let's just hope for a buff in 4.1.0 :D
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