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Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:16 pm
by Syncognition
So the functionality of Avenger's Shield is broken as of the latest patch. I usually let my DPS CC then pull with AS, but it is now bouncing to CC'd mobs. I don't know if it is all CC, but Repentance and Poly are definitely affected by it. My guild's rogue hasn't been on for me to test if it is bouncing to Sap as well, but if it is this is a nerf to rogues and to pre-pull CC in general. It isn't much of a problem to compensate for if only for the fact that my groups usually over-gear heroics and trash anyway, but it is more than a little frustrating to see this change after blizzard made it a point all the way back in BC to fix it.

I have submitted a GM ticket, though I don't know how much good that will do. I'll update this post with the response when it is received.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:17 pm
by majiben
I don't know if anyone else has experienced this and my account is currently inactive. could you give any other information that might help others replicate this? Any glyphs that you have and other such things? Is your latency high or low or something compared to your CCers? I know that AS will hit targets that were not CCed when it started flying but were before were before they hit. But doesn't explain why it would affect Sap targets that way.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:49 pm
by Syncognition
Let's back up. I didn't say it affected Sap targets, I said I didn't know if it will. I've seen the behavior on 2 CC abilities so far.

It is anecdotal, but it affected every pull I attempted with repentance and polymorph, even waiting a few seconds after CC was down to throw. This happened for both myself and a guild-mate who went prot so I could go ret and test it. Same results every time we were willing to try. Of course that wasn't really that many times, as once we felt we confirmed the behavior we modified our pulling method and put in the GM ticket.

My armory

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... mir/simple

My latency is anywhere between 70 and 200 ms. I've been pulling without this problem until the patch, so I very much doubt anything has changed on my side.

P.S. Please forgive my ret spec and stam trinket/weapon. I know very little about ret and haven't been very lucky with drops as you can see by the fact that I'm nearly 100% failsafe geared.

EDIT: The extent of the response I received is "we are aware that there are issues and are working to resolve them." Nothing too surprising there.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:52 am
by Aerron
Might be some of the issues discussed in this thread: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic

I used it yesterday with ice trap, 'lock fear, and sap with no issues. I did see it hit a target under a druid's entangle, but that's always been the case.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:58 am
by Njall
Usually only happens with a target that is/is being cc'd as a I throw. Never happened with anything that's been cc'd for a few seconds already.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:08 am
by Nikachelle
I've tanked plenty since the patch, with CC, and this hasn't happened to me at all. Are you sure lag isn't the issue? Or maybe someone else is breaking the CC? Next time, check Recount to see who is actually breaking the CC.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:51 am
by Flex
I had it bounced to a Repentanced target in a VP, other runs and other pulls in that dungeon did not happen.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:36 pm
by Syncognition
It is possible that the issue is just with repentance, and that someone else was breaking the sheep. When I get home from work today I'll see if I can get a ret pally with me and pull some overworld trash with a combat log rolling on it. Maybe we can isolate the issue. Maybe I'm just crazy or off in my timing, but it has never been an issue before. =\

Does aggroing 2 mobs, having the repentance down for lets say 15 seconds, and then shielding the non-cc mob in close proximity sound like a fair test of the issue?

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:37 pm
by d503
Syncognition wrote:It is possible that the issue is just with repentance, and that someone else was breaking the sheep. When I get home from work today I'll see if I can get a ret pally with me and pull some overworld trash with a combat log rolling on it. Maybe we can isolate the issue. Maybe I'm just crazy or off in my timing, but it has never been an issue before. =\

Does aggroing 2 mobs, having the repentance down for lets say 15 seconds, and then shielding the non-cc mob in close proximity sound like a fair test of the issue?


It really sounds like a timing thing. One way you can know for sure is to install a mod like Big Brother that tattles on CC Breakers, and make sure that you always toss your shield after mobs start running toward you.

If there's a caster that's not CC'd, you can just throw it at them and just taunt/judge the other targets over.

The key thing to do is just wait a bit longer. Nobody's gonna die in the time it takes the mobs to get from their location to the party (unless they're dumb ;P).

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:04 pm
by Syncognition
I'm aware of how to pull and I know how to adjust for it. I'm not sure if you took the time to check my armory, but I am at this point I would say a fairly competent tank. My concern is that one or more abilities isn't working as intended. I confirmed tonight with a guild-mate that this is actually occurring, though I am not familiar with how run a log on it. Either repentance isn't flagged correctly as CC or Avenger's Shield has been changed in such a way as to become broken.

We went to twilight highlands and pulled the nagas on the beach, used repentance on one, and stood there for 20 seconds doing nothing before throwing avenger's shield at a non-repentanced target, only to have it bounce and break the CC. The only abilities cast during the tests were repentance and avenger's shield.

If someone can tell me how to run a log I'll be glad, however I'm questioning whether I'm bringing this up to the right community for the fact that the first instinct is to assume that I don't know how to play my toon. Test it yourself and do something constructive if you have the time to make assumptions. :?

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:25 am
by d503
Syncognition wrote:I'm aware of how to pull and I know how to adjust for it. I'm not sure if you took the time to check my armory, but I am at this point I would say a fairly competent tank.


I did *not* take the time to check your armory, since that's hardly the measure of any tank. You have 20 posts on this site and are relatively new to the community, so I didn't presume you've been tanking for "omg forever."

I'm not trying to be a cock about it, but I figured I would make sure all the "is it plugged in" type questions were covered.

We have an entire "Missing the memo" thread where people who are far more experienced than you or I are free and willing to admit that at one point, maybe even recently, they overlooked a basic mechanic.

That being said, I did notice this occur tonight :)

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:17 am
by Extermi
I have been tanking since I have led my raid into Zul Gurub back at 60, if that makes me competent :-)

And yesterday my AS did break the repentance a Ret member was using to pull for me in a heroic and that repentance went visibly through before my shield throw. So it is no lag issue, since I waited for the others to run to me (the CCed mob was left standing).

It is an issue, I just downt know how pressing it is - since we had no mage etc. we just cleared the instance without CC :-)

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:45 am
by Njall
I decided to test this in Heroic Grim Batol last night:

AS broke repentance four times. And in the last three cases, it was after the Repent had been up for 2-3 seconds. These same AS also skipped Hexed, Bound Elementals, and Sheeped targets. Didn't have a rogue to check out sap. It may have also been getting Frost Trap too. We eventually went back to the old-school method of having Repentance cast after the AS.

Irritating.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:06 pm
by majiben
Additional information about buffs and glyphs you are using would be useful in ruling out an odd interaction.

Also, there is no need for anyone to be concerned with how much or little tanking experience a poster has when posting in basic training. Checking all the bases solves the issue most of the time.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:10 pm
by boneyjellyfish
I'd like to add some anecdotal evidence to this: I've witnessed my AS bounce to targets CC'd with glyphed fear numerous times tonight. I did not have a chance to test non-glyphed fears.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:02 pm
by cerwillis
AS has always bounced to feared targets, both glyphed and otherwise, I think this is intended. I can report that I have used it near sap, trap and sheep since Tuesday without issue. I don't run with any AS glyphs. I haven't tried w repentance, but I will see if I can tomorrow.

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:14 pm
by Syncognition
Hey all, sorry if it came off as frustrated, and in no way was I trying to say I'm a great tank. I was just indicating that "yes, I know it is plugged in" after receiving so many responses indicating that it was an ID10T error. I've also confirmed like most of you that sheep breaking was just that. :D

It is looking more and more to me like it might be a problem with how repentance is flagged. I'm not seeing the interaction occur with any other crowd control that didn't already have this behavior.

My goal with posting this in basic training was to confirm the behavior and give other tanks a heads up so it didn't catch anyone off guard. It isn't really a concern to me personally since heroics for my guild have turned into wrath-esque AoE fests. XD

Re: Avenger's Shield Bounces to CC targets

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:53 pm
by Lionhammer
I have seen this as well.... I'm also 85% sure it hit a frost trap. Seems also that it has only just recently started occurring