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Starting to have threat problems...

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Starting to have threat problems...

Postby Siral » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:55 pm

I know this moment will come one day or later....

As my raid group progress advance, my friends get better weapon, i got better tanking items (truth is that only them get better items, i'm still stucked in pre raid gear, drops hate me).
So what happens?

I become less hittable (just now i have about 88 CTC self buffed), my vengeance doesnt goes up, but their damage and threat raised a lot.

When for single target boss with a lot of efforts (using at example boar figurine that gives me mastery, but on use str to increase my initial threat, very good in a starting move like divine plea, avenging wrath, boar, avenger's shield, judgement, trying to proc sacred duty and sotr, maybe i must try the inquisition opening), I cant never hold aggro in aoe pulls.
Expecially arms warrior, unholy dk and boomkin, when we do heroics for the daily, it seems impossible to me to keep mobs sticked to me (obviously only the target continue to hit me, other mobs goes after my friends after 2 seconds).
So at the moment i'm using a standard 31/10 survival spec with eternal glory and sacred duty to keep single mob aggro better, low hit and low expertise, with WoG, Seal of truth and hammer of righteous glyphs.
What can i do to improve my Aoe threat?
Spec 33/8 (remove pursuit of justice to take improved consacration), glyph consacration or try to create a heroic tanking set (so, something with more hit and epxertise, and less avoidace to gain more vengeance, maybe more stamina oriented so i will gain more ap from vengance)?

any suggestion will be appreciated.

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Re: Starting to have threat problems...

Postby Aerron » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:52 am

Siral wrote:maybe i must try the inquisition opening


Yes.

Also, the classes you mentioned (war, dk, boomkin) are always a problem as they have no threat dumps unlike rogues, hunters, warlocks, etc. Those players need to be smart enough to have installed Omen and watch it. They need to take responsibility for their threat if they wanna do mad dps and know when to back off.
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Re: Starting to have threat problems...

Postby Njall » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:31 am

Aerron wrote:
Siral wrote:maybe i must try the inquisition opening


Yes.

Also, the classes you mentioned (war, dk, boomkin) are always a problem as they have no threat dumps unlike rogues, hunters, warlocks, etc. Those players need to be smart enough to have installed Omen and watch it. They need to take responsibility for their threat if they wanna do mad dps and know when to back off.


You've also got a few methods to quell threat - hands and pro-active taunting. I am fond of using a Divine Plea a few cycles into get two SotR off in a row to front load things (I also open with Exorcism then AS/Judge while closing). But you could always use a few procs of Divine Power on Inquisition rather than WoG.

I find that I am liking Cookie's Tenderizer - despite it's abhorrent appearance - has very high threat for it's iLevel due to the slower weapon speed.
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Re: Starting to have threat problems...

Postby Siral » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:40 pm

I will change Tenderizer only with epix mace.

2,8 speed is a great source of threat for single target...however i've changed a little the rotation in HCs and things get better...but the arms warrior is still a pain in the... :P
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Re: Starting to have threat problems...

Postby Darthpaxis » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:56 am

First let me say I am posting this from work so exact numbers and armor link are not available at this time.

I have recently returned to WoW after taking a 2 year hiatus in order to complete my degree. I come back and a lot has changed so I turned to these forums where I got every answer I needed in order to get to 85 and tank every dungeon from 70 to 85 normal with ease. I used the guides on here to gear up to well over the minimum heroic requirements and I have tried 3 times now to do Random Heroics and every time I get frustrated and end up leaving due to threat issues. I have learned the 969 attack and I am using the get three holy power then shield slam to pull after Captian America Pulling the mobs. Yet every time even with marked mobs I am losing threat to other DPS and sometimes Healers because I have to grab roaming mobs instead of Skull mob with taunt on them due to mobs not sticking like clue.

Please help me with what seems to be huge change in threat mechanics for heroics from normal or am I just getting shitty healers and DPS or do I just Suck that bad and need to respec in order to come back to WoW.

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Re: Starting to have threat problems...

Postby Olen » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:32 pm

If you wind up leaving due to threat issues, its not the healers or the dps.
HotR everything, use your HoPo to keep Inquisition up instead of SotR'ing.

My typical AOE pull looks like:
AS
HotR
HW
HotR
Inq
HotR
Judg
HotR
etc

Tweak it however you want, but if RF is turned on its usually not an issue. The best thing you can do for your party is don't waste time between pulls. If the healer's mana is good, mark skull and dive in head first. When I roll with other guild tanks and I'm dps'ing I don't put up with them pulling slow and I wouldn't expect anyone to wait on me when I'm tanking.
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Re: Starting to have threat problems...

Postby benebarba » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:49 am

I used to have some threat issues before 4.0.1 (usually gear-related mostly) then shortly afterward as I got used to the new stuff (and some class-imbalance). I am only now getting to the point where my guildmates even approach my threat in AOE pulls. Vengence plus Righteous Fury is really that awesome, and after about 3-5 GCDs, I can lock down pretty damn near anything as my DPS let fly.

Don't be afraid to spend some gem slots/enchants/reforging on hit (don't go crazy though). Make sure you aren't missing too much. Huge CTC does you and your party no good if you spend half the time bouncing mobs off the DPS/healers.

Also, don't be afraid to tell your DPS to hold off for a GCD or two (the good ones will know this and not open with the biggest damn hit they have before you actually get into melee range). I let them get smacked a few times if they decide they want to go whole hog on a mob before I have a chance to hit them after the initial pull. Personally, I am relatively slow to mark and pull, especially until I have memorized the instance, because I like things clean. Speed will come with familiarity. Kill order is king... your DPS will likely be using you and your marks to determine what they will focus on. If something changes, remark skull (I have all the marks keybound to make this easy), etc. Good DPS will adapt on the fly rather than hammer away at an off-target.

Finally, I've found that the current priority system is much less forgiving than the old 9696 was, at least until you get both the AOE and single target rotation down. Also, a unitframe addon like threatplates has made my tanking life *much* easier, since it lets me see at a glance what I have threat on, what is iffy and what is loose.
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