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Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:49 am
by Carbonite
Hey All, Ive did alot of reading about rotations but just want to make sure im clear...

5 Man Normals and 5 Man Heroics
Single Target
-Pull With AS than CS,Judge,CS,HW,CS,Sotr,CS,AS,CS,Judge,CS,Sotr,CS,HW,CS,Judge,CS,Sotr

Basically rotate between HW and AS

Aoe
-Pull With AS than Hotr,Judge,Hotr,HW,Hotr,Sotr,Hotr,Judge,Hotr,AS,Hotr,Sotr

Basically swapped out CS with HoTR...

Is that what I should be doing in 5 man dungeons?

When I use SoT I run out of mana doing this rotation... should I switch to SoL after first rotation? What do you all do?

Re: Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:17 am
by econ21
For the pull, where I think threat may be an issue or I think we really need every bit of dps, I will often start with exorcism.

Regardless, on the pull, I (improved) judge before using avenger shield. This is for two reasons - firstly, to start the mana regen early; and secondly, because allowing more time, may make it more likely the mobs cluster and I get the AS bounce (I don't use the focused shield glpyh). Using Judgement early may also make it easier to slide into our proper rotation when it should precede AS, as it will come off CD sooner.

In fact, just today, I read about someone starting with two exorcisms and may even try that. Because with dazing shield glyphed, I sometimes find a gap despite going Exo, J, AS before the mobs get into melee range.

When you get into the fight proper, I think you understand the rotation right. But imo, it is not so important to religiously follow it for 5 man trash. For trash, it seems to be me more about rounding up and controlling the mobs, which may be messy, than perfectly going through 939. For example, I may prioritise AS GC procs as they are very nice for AOE threat and for silencing mobs. Conversely, with glyph of HW, I may use that early when fighting elementals and dragonkin. I may slip in a hammer of justice if there is a very nasty mob - e.g. a caster. I might have to taunt strays. For me as a tank, control trumps dps.

You don't mention Divine Plea, but I like to use what I call the theckhd double punch - get to 3 HoPo, pop AW, ShotR, pop DP, ShotR again and then go for lunch, as threat is locked down.

One issue to consider is whether to use inquisiton for AOE. For "cleave tanking", I tend not to, as I would rather one mob die fast - to reduce incoming damage - than to maximise my damage over three mobs. However, if there are many mobs, inquisition is superior. I would also use consecration early on in the fight where there are more than 4 mobs.

For mana, I often seal switch from truth to insight mid fight. And then sometimes "forget" to switch back on the next trash group if dps seem not to be stealing aggro but are killing things fast enough.

Re: Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:43 am
by Malthrax
[quote="Carbonite"
Single Target
-Pull With AS than CS,Judge,CS,HW,CS,Sotr,CS,AS,CS,Judge,CS,Sotr,CS,HW,CS,Judge,CS,Sotr
[/quote]

Close.

Your rotation should be: CS, Judge, CS, AS>HW, CS, SotR, repeat

Use Avenger's Shield if its available, otherwise Holy Wrath. Don't push back Judgement - that's probably the root cause of your mana issues.

Re: Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:10 am
by Carbonite
Great Thanks! I can see you do Judgement again 5 spells later as I was doing it 7 spells later... so yeah I guess I was pushing back judgement....

Thanks

Carb

Re: Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:29 am
by Arcand
In long fights, watch for Divine Plea to come up, too. That's free
mana, and it's also a free slam or a free heal. (Hit it when you're
at zero Holy Power, of course, or you're leaving some of its benefit
on the table.)

Re: Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:49 am
by Pmerkin
I've been reading a lot on rotations and still never seem to see anyone mention word of glory as part of the rotation. I use it constantly, if not to heal myself to help heal others. The healer I run with a majority of the time always comments about how much easier it is to heal me than other tanks. So I'm wondering, why don't more pally tanks use this as a staple of their rotation instead of just a oh crap! button. If I ever have any trouble with aggro it's on trash and usually because the DPS is not focusing on the correct target. (oh well that's what taunts are for) Not to mention this greatly conserves the healers mana and we often get through an entire dungeon without having to stop for mana.

Re: Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:28 am
by Malthrax
Pmerkin wrote:I've been reading a lot on rotations and still never seem to see anyone mention word of glory as part of the rotation. I use it constantly, if not to heal myself to help heal others. The healer I run with a majority of the time always comments about how much easier it is to heal me than other tanks. So I'm wondering, why don't more pally tanks use this as a staple of their rotation instead of just a oh crap! button. If I ever have any trouble with aggro it's on trash and usually because the DPS is not focusing on the correct target. (oh well that's what taunts are for) Not to mention this greatly conserves the healers mana and we often get through an entire dungeon without having to stop for mana.


I do use it, but only in situations where the healer is undergeared and needs a boost. Under normal circumstances, I'd rather contribute more toward DPS and getting things dead faster.

Dead Mobs don't do any damage.

Re: Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:24 pm
by Arcand
I probably WoG ten or fifteen times for every one shield. My
two healer characters have taught me that healers have a tough
row to hoe right now so I'm going to help all I can.

Re: Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:01 pm
by Vort
Arcand wrote:In long fights, watch for Divine Plea to come up, too. That's free
mana, and it's also a free slam or a free heal. (Hit it when you're
at zero Holy Power, of course, or you're leaving some of its benefit
on the table.)


I never let Plea stay on me for more than the macro to remove it allows, I only use plea for Holy Power gain if I need a quick WoG on someone or another heal on myself. The mana recovery is negated by using SoI on boss fights after you've established threat.

Re: Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:36 pm
by Pmerkin
I probably WoG ten or fifteen times for every one shield. My
two healer characters have taught me that healers have a tough
row to hoe right now so I'm going to help all I can.


Exactly! The funny part was I was healing reg. stonecore on my alt priest and we had a pally tank. At the first pull I knew the tank was only focusing on DPS because I was healing a ton (granted my priest is not well geared, hence the alt). I asked him to just try, for a few pulls, to use WoG instead of his shield of inquisition. The difference was amazing.

Re: Prot Rotation.. Yes Again......

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:46 pm
by Rasmfrackn
econ21 wrote:In fact, just today, I read about someone starting with two exorcisms and may even try that. Because with dazing shield glyphed, I sometimes find a gap despite going Exo, J, AS before the mobs get into melee range.


Yeah, assuming that boss positioning isn't super touchy off the bat I usually lead with 2 to even 3 exorcisms if possible. At worst I just lead straight into "The Rotation" without putting AS/J on early cooldown, but technically what I do is DP(3HoPo), exo, exo, (exo,) J, ShoR. Then I go into the rotation. It's enough frontloading that an open GCD in the second rotation isn't very noticeable.

I also tank with SoI pretty much exclusively. The mana regen from judging it alone is huge, aside from the extra mana procs from melee.

After that "The Rotation" is normal. However, for AE it's probably not the best idea to stick to the rotataion. Grand Crusader procs are almost exclusively the realm of AE tanking. If you get AS refreshed, you should just use it immediately. My record in recent memory is 3 refreshes in a row.

Obviously SoI isn't ideal for threat, but unless you need that 10 expertise (i'm rocking maybe 9-10 exp in heroics, but I know if i raid i can use SoT and be close to the cap) I find that, especially single target, you'll still hit a point where you can drop SotRs for WoGs anyway, so the meager threat from SoT itself is a nonissue.

That said, having just found out about Eternal Glory's 15 second GCD, I'm adhering to "The Rotation" much more instead of constantly throwing out single-HoPo WoGs every other GCD. I'd much rather proc an extra 3 HoPo than an extra 1 HoPo. Once I get a proc I know I can 1HoPo for a bit. PotI is an awesome talent. :) (For now...)