Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

[Malarkey]

So for the past few weeks we've been working less on downing bosses and more on just farming encounters. Because of this I've started to pay a little more attention to WoG and thusly Eternal Glory. This past week I became absolutely convinced that I was not getting more than 1 EG proc per WoG. I figured at a 30% chance I should be seeing multiple (2+) proc's per fight. At first I chalked it up to just not paying close enough attention to WoG and my EG procs. However tonight I finally looked into it and EG has a 15 second ICD (Source: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=88676).

So now I'm starting to think that EG might not really be worth it. At most it is an extra WoG once every other 3 HoPo. Because EG only has a 30% chance to proc that means that I'm only getting 50%*30% = 15% more WoGs if it proc's every 2nd WoG. I'm starting to wonder if putting those two points into Divinity (4% more healing) might actually be more beneficial. I'm assuming that Divinity double dips, which means my WoG would be healing me for 8% more + 4% more healing from the raid.

Am I over thinking this or does this make sense to anyone else?

[theckhd]

Hm... the 15-second ICD must have been added in Cataclysm, because I distinctly remember getting 3+ procs in a row while soloing Magtheridon at 80.

Just ran a quick parse on a level 60 dummy, and it definitely looks like the 15-second ICD is active:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-k ... l+Glory%22

That said, most of us aren't choosing between Divinity and Eternal Glory, we're taking them both.

[Malarkey]

Yeah, I definitely remember having 2, 3 and even a 4 proc of EG back in WotLK and I thought I remembered it even doing it at the start of Cata but I'm not entirely sure. I wasn't really concerned about it proc'ing until the past few weeks when we began doing raids.

I've been running with just 1/3 in Divinity and 2/2 SotP obviously, though looking back on it threat really hasn't been an issue so I suppose I should have been going 3/3 Divinity anyway. I guess I'll just pick up Divinity and keep EG, but the nerfed EG is just seeming pretty lackluster to me at this point. I'm starting to debate if it is really worth it. I suppose when the highest DPS isn't even close to touching me in threat SotP isn't really worth anything though.

[theckhd]

I just worked out the math for it, and EG is worth about 580 HPS. It's interesting to note that if you're sinking Holy Power with WoG, Eternal Glory and Divinity are both better threat talents than Seals of the Pure by a factor of 2 or more.

[Malarkey]

Well that settles it pretty definitively then. Doesn't make me feel bad at all for going and dropping Seals of the Pure last night after posting this. I actually feel a little silly for not doing it sooner. Still too bad about the ICD on EG though.

Thanks again Theck.

[econ21]

This past week I became absolutely convinced that I was not getting more than 1 EG proc per WoG.

I am not sure you are right about this. I got 2 EG procs for one WoG last night. I only made a note of it because I had read your post before, but my impression is that it's a regular occurrence for me.

[theckhd]

Are you sure about that? I've been watching pretty closely while I raid since this was brought to my attention, and didn't see any double-procs (nor back-to-back procs within 9 seconds, as far as I can remember) in all of last night's Nefarian attempts.

[sculder]

Are you sure about that? I've been watching pretty closely while I raid since this was brought to my attention, and didn't see any double-procs (nor back-to-back procs within 9 seconds, as far as I can remember) in all of last night's Nefarian attempts.

I haven't had a back-to-back proc at all this week, and I've been looking for them

[theckhd]

Further testing. I took last night's WoL report and filtered all Eternal Glory procs for the four relevant paladins. I then parsed them for timestamps and calculated the difference. Here's the log data, raw time differences (filtered for <60 seconds only), along with a histogram of the results:

Code: Select all

20:58:39.261 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
20:59:58.888 Theck gains 1 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:07:15.726 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:07:39.824 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:07:57.877 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:09:48.605 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:13:41.947 Theck gains 2 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:20:58.081 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:21:42.243 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:24:09.057 Theck gains 1 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:27:01.383 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:35:01.918 Theck gains 2 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:35:36.462 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:35:59.311 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:40:54.234 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:33:09.803 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:35:02.611 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:35:53.652 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:41:59.382 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:42:32.717 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:43:16.870 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:44:54.716 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:45:17.679 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:54:22.225 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:54:48.311 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
22:59:28.377 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:09:10.795 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:09:47.576 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:10:11.257 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:11:43.157 Theck gains 2 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:14:53.079 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:15:30.421 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:16:08.928 Theck gains 2 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:23:56.431 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:24:42.666 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:25:07.128 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:29:57.816 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:30:27.177 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:31:59.076 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:32:51.578 Theck gains 3 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:35:35.544 Theck gains 2 from Theck's Eternal Glory
23:35:52.384 Theck gains 2 from Theck's Eternal Glory
21:07:30.602 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:07:48.668 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:08:42.135 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:09:13.380 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:12:53.807 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:14:08.420 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:21:28.613 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:21:55.503 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:22:46.481 Agwyne gains 2 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:23:35.907 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:23:51.128 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:25:09.851 Agwyne gains 1 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:26:27.691 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:27:42.697 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:28:05.581 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:35:24.436 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:35:47.672 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:37:07.581 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:38:16.234 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:40:35.151 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
21:41:40.551 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:42:13.054 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:42:38.350 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:44:23.208 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:44:57.283 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:45:30.205 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:53:59.355 Agwyne gains 2 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:54:53.601 Agwyne gains 2 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:55:23.738 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:55:50.573 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:57:04.476 Agwyne gains 2 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
22:59:47.409 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:00:05.049 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:10:04.408 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:10:27.697 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:11:32.421 Agwyne gains 2 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:11:49.631 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:12:18.900 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:14:36.631 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:14:55.915 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:15:45.280 Agwyne gains 2 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:16:00.946 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:16:21.412 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:24:39.470 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:24:55.137 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:30:28.720 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:32:03.513 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:32:21.168 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
23:34:54.577 Agwyne gains 3 from Agwyne's Eternal Glory
20:59:31.099 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:00:30.584 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:00:49.822 Mamimi gains 1 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:07:06.922 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:07:26.996 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:07:49.054 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:11:01.029 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:11:34.753 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:13:47.966 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:14:59.414 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:19:14.507 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:20:08.717 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:20:26.768 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:20:48.051 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:21:05.314 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:21:37.456 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:22:47.703 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:23:33.859 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:24:48.146 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:25:21.475 Mamimi gains 1 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:27:45.188 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:28:31.660 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:34:39.827 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:34:59.115 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:35:39.669 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:36:04.927 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:40:00.674 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
21:41:43.813 Mamimi gains 1 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:34:02.813 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:34:58.201 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:42:17.460 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:42:43.169 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:44:20.816 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:44:38.784 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:45:33.850 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:53:34.069 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:53:50.938 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:54:10.590 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:54:40.712 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:55:17.710 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
22:59:02.091 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:00:05.446 Mamimi gains 1 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:00:24.336 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:01:18.069 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:10:16.452 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:11:13.472 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:11:42.003 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:12:03.658 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:13:14.366 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:15:14.776 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:23:46.802 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:29:47.789 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:30:56.818 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:31:15.317 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:32:44.129 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:33:16.208 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:33:56.343 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:34:46.543 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:35:45.932 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:36:30.529 Mamimi gains 3 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
23:37:34.649 Mamimi gains 2 from Mamimi's Eternal Glory
20:57:33.839 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
20:59:37.123 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:00:34.551 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:00:58.700 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:07:01.678 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:07:55.903 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:09:08.568 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:10:26.028 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:12:06.865 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:12:56.211 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:14:59.011 Roflalot gains 1 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:20:33.657 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:22:48.509 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:24:36.899 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:25:13.026 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:26:06.038 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:27:00.999 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:28:21.645 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:34:56.319 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:36:33.053 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:38:07.066 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:38:26.278 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:39:05.217 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:40:01.880 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:40:45.559 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:41:23.701 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
21:42:36.354 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
22:35:43.978 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
22:41:31.705 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
22:43:05.656 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
22:45:13.772 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
22:53:13.195 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
22:53:42.897 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
22:54:24.300 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
22:57:26.524 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
22:57:52.687 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
22:58:13.886 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:00:09.874 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:00:56.024 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:01:14.460 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:09:00.546 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:09:35.517 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:10:36.110 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:11:14.271 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:11:37.542 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:12:30.940 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:14:29.029 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:15:31.676 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:23:14.290 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:23:48.004 Roflalot gains 2 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:29:53.009 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:31:25.412 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:31:50.682 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:32:55.347 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:35:45.122 Roflalot gains 3 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory
23:37:08.207 Roflalot gains 1 from Roflalot's Eternal Glory

Code: Select all

   15.2210
   15.6660
   15.6670
   16.8400
   16.8690
   17.2100
   17.2630
   17.6400
   17.6550
   17.9680
   18.0510
   18.0530
   18.0660
   18.4360
   18.4990
   18.8900
   19.2120
   19.2380
   19.2840
   19.2880
   19.6520
   20.0740
   20.4660
   21.1990
   21.2830
   21.6550
   22.0580
   22.8490
   22.8840
   22.9630
   23.2360
   23.2710
   23.2890
   23.6810
   24.0980
   24.1490
   24.4620
   25.2580
   25.2700
   25.2960
   25.7090
   26.0860
   26.1630
   26.8350
   26.8900
   28.5310
   29.2690
   29.3610
   29.7020
   30.1220
   30.1370
   31.2450
   32.0790
   32.1420
   32.9220
   33.3290
   33.3350
   33.7140
   33.7240
   34.0750
   34.5440
   34.9710
   36.1270
   36.7810
   36.9980
   37.3420
   38.1420
   38.1610
   38.5070
   38.9390
   40.1350
   40.5540
   41.4030
   43.6790
   44.1530
   44.1620
   44.5970
   46.1500
   46.1560
   46.2350
   46.4720
   49.3460
   49.3650
   49.4260
   50.2000
   50.9780
   51.0410
   52.5020
   53.0120
   53.3980
   53.4670
   53.7330
   54.2100
   54.2250
   54.2460
   54.9610
   55.0660
   55.3880
   56.6630
   57.0200
   57.4280
   59.3890
   59.4850

There were absolutely no procs with a time separation less than 15 seconds out of the events here (between 103 and 206 depending on bookending). Now, there are some caveats here - there's no guarantee that the paladins recast WoG within 15 seconds of an EG proc, though both tanks probably did. It's probably a reasonably safe guess that at least 50% of the WoGs that procced EG were followed by another WoG within 15 seconds, however. So let's take a conservative estimate of 50 events that fit our criterion.

There would be a ~9% overall chance of a double proc if EG had no ICD. But we're looking at a conditional probability here, because we're post-selecting our data by looking at only the delay after a successful EG proc. So in fact, we'd expect a 30% chance of back-to-back EGs on successive WoGs.

With 50 events, we'd expect around 15 of those events to be back-to-back procs that occur within 15 seconds of one another. The chance that we see 0 such events out of 50 trials is binopdf(0,50,0.3)=1.8E-8. I think it's safe to say that EG has a 15-second ICD.

[Malarkey]

Theck: I think you more than have a handle on the situation, but if for some reason you need some additional WoL parses let me know.

[econ21]

Yes, case closed. My bad, sorry.

[sculder]

Theck: I think you more than have a handle on the situation, but if for some reason you need some additional WoL parses let me know.

I checked my last 5 parses and couldn't find anything below 15sec in between EG procs for any of the 4 paladins in raid. With over a hundred events included we should expect ~30 double procs, but we saw 0. Quite definitive in my opinion.

[Phonic]

Makes me sad.

But I could have swore I've seen a double proc or two when I've been running heroics or doing Cho'gall. I'll have to take note this raid week and post a parse if it does happen. Then again, the above evidence is pretty conclusive. So I was probably just dreaming.

[inthedrops]

I gotta say, just knowing it's a 15 second ICD is very helpful. I thought it was more random than that. Thanks for the thread and posts. Now when I solo stuff I don't even bother to WoG unless I know at least 15 seconds have elapsed. It's helped a lot with getting controlled WoG procs.

[Arizair]

i swear that i've cast 3 3-point WoG's in a row in under 15 seconds... there was just a divine plea in there too :p