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Who can CC what

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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Krazed » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:01 am

All crowd control except banish can break prematurely.

Also Shaman's can Hex humanoids with a 30 second cool down and lasts for 50?

Since it has been lost I'll post it so Mages and Hunters are not confused.
Moon = Sheep
Square = Trap


So far what I've encountered that needs CC.

Throne of Tides:
-Naz'jar Spiritmender heals and each heal becomes faster after than the previous one at least in Heroic.
-Naz'jar Tempest Witch Chain lighting attacks FTL.
-Naz'jar Invader use roots or some short CC here possibly if under geared, or don't forget Tank CD's.

Halls of Origination:
-Temple Swiftstalker Just annoying with MS Shot.
-Temple Shadowlancer Pulsing AOE Death.
Through nature's inflexible grace I'm learning to live - Dream Theater
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby econ21 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:02 am

Added Mind control and seduce, as they do sound useful (and I recall them being great in MGT). Corrected typos (blame cut and paste). Can a warlock fear one target and seduce another? With such short durations, they'd probably not do much else but with DOTs still ticking away on non-CC mobs, it could still be effective.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Eltiana » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:58 am

econ21 wrote:Added Mind control and seduce, as they do sound useful (and I recall them being great in MGT). Corrected typos (blame cut and paste). Can a warlock fear one target and seduce another? With such short durations, they'd probably not do much else but with DOTs still ticking away on non-CC mobs, it could still be effective.
I know in MGT they could both banish one mob, and seduce another, so I don't see why not. Made warlocks invaluable for MGT having 2 CCs.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby johninnewport » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:28 am

Hi,

I wanted to thank you for putting this list together as it is really helpful. Im rather new to tanking and was hoping to get some more advice/opinions on crowd control. Here are some questions that are at the top of my mind:

1. What mobs are most appropriate for crowd control? Choosing between a caster and a melee, do you cc the caster or the melee? I feel like casters should be ccd as they will stay at range while the rest of the group comes to you on the pull - plus their damage potential is much greater.

2. In the event there are two casters but only one can be crowd controlled, what is the best way to handle that pull? Say there is a group of 5 mobs and you can cc one caster. Well if you pull with a ranged attack, the melee will come to you but the second caster will stay back and bomb away. I cant use avengers shield to silence since it will likely break the cc, how should I handle this situation?

3. In general, whats the best strategy for a generic 5 mob pull assuming you have 2 ccs and there are 2 or more casters and they cant be LOS pulled?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Gavinas » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:05 am

johninnewport wrote:I cant use avengers shield to silence since it will likely break the cc, how should I handle this situation?


Avenger's shield won't bounce to cc'd targets.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby johninnewport » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:11 am

Gavinas wrote:
johninnewport wrote:I cant use avengers shield to silence since it will likely break the cc, how should I handle this situation?


Avenger's shield won't bounce to cc'd targets.


Ah. Thanks. That will help substantially.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby econ21 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:52 pm

Who to CC is an interesting question and it might be good in this thread to identify the most dangerous mobs in the new five mans. Often there is one kind of trash mob with a potentially devastating ability that means they should either die first or be CCd. Often, it is the healer(s) - as they can frequently keep the whole pack of trash going if not dealt with fast. But there are others - like the Azol Nerub skirmishers that drop aggro; the Old Kingdom spellcasters that take 80% of your HPs with their big hit; or the Utgarde Pinnacle berserkers who can send your party running into the next trash pack.

But generally, I would prioritise the casters over melee for CC. They are ranged and with CC, we often don't want to run to them. The melee will obligingly run into our circle of death. Our armor and avoidance are useless against casters, so we take more damage from them. And, often being clothies, casters are usually quite squishy.

With a 5 man pull, I would CC the healer if I could or skull them otherwise. The casters I would rely on CC or use avenger shield to silence them, drawing them in. If that fails, just taunt them onto you if you lose threat (because they are outside of melee range). If you have marked them for early death, it might not matter too much if you lose aggro as the dps may be able to burn them down. I often focus on tanking the melee, as they seem to cause more damage if you lose aggro.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby benebarba » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:06 pm

To me it always made sense to prioritize the casters in trash packs (i.e. if it has a mana bar, it dies so I don't have to deal with shadow/ice/fire in the back and because avengers shield makes em run to me)... but it sounds as though the CC abilities of the various classes may have a long enough range to CC them before the pull so the CCd mob doesn't aggro? IIRC, only a couple of the CCs prevent a target from casting (polymorph, for example)... am I mistaken?
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby johninnewport » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:32 pm

Thanks for the replies. One more follow up question - Which of the CCs listed at the start of the post would be inappropriate to use on casters? For example will entangling roots allow the mob to keep casting. That would be really helpful to know.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Arcand » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:47 pm

Another drawback of mind control is that it generates a huge amount of threat.

That's irrelevant, of course, if you can get the target killed before MC breaks.
But if MC does break early, the priest is probably tanking that mob. I seem
to remember that you couldn't even taunt them off after an MC, but I'm not sure
about that - it's been too long.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Ojimaru » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:38 pm

Arcand wrote:Another drawback of mind control is that it generates a huge amount of threat.

That's irrelevant, of course, if you can get the target killed before MC breaks.
But if MC does break early, the priest is probably tanking that mob. I seem
to remember that you couldn't even taunt them off after an MC, but I'm not sure
about that - it's been too long.

Unless they've changed the mechanic, mobs getting pissy over a harmless Mind Control can still be peeled of the Priest with a quick "Yo momma...".
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby fetznschaedl » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:07 am

Can a warlock fear one target and seduce another?


Yes they can! Seduce is an ability the pet uses, so it leaves the warlock free to cast whatever he wishes, which includes fear.

I seem to remember that you couldn't even taunt them off after an MC, but I'm not sure
about that - it's been too long.


I don't think that's ever been true, the problem mostly was that the mob had nothing else on it's threat list and ran towards the priest as soon as the MC broke. Once you taunt the mob, however, you are automatically put on top it's threat list. That was true then and still is.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Ojimaru » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:37 am

Actually... unless WOWHead is wrong, Mind Control only works on Humanoids of up to Level 41...

Can anybody confirm?
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby claisa » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:47 am

i can confirm wowhead is very wrong.

MC is teh win in heroics
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Malthrax » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:06 am

econ21 wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:I think you should note that Ret Paladin's Repentance has a CD = Duration, so it can't be reapplied easily.


I am not following that - surely if CD=duration, it can be reapplied just when you need to reapply it? I guess you mean it cannot be reapplied if broken prematurely? But still with careful players it seems like you can shut down one mob almost indefinitely (I am not sure if there is some kind of diminishing returns to CC in PvE, I recall there is in PvP, but anyway 2mins is a long time for a trash fight).

But now you mention it, putting in CDs for these abilities may be worthwhile.


Since the duration is exactly equal to the cooldown, there will always be some lag time (appx. 1 global cooldown + round-trip latency) between the time the Repentance expires, freeing the mob, and the player is able to re-apply it.

Just make sure to Repent far enough away from the burn target as to have plenty of time to re-apply it before it reaches the Consecrate/D&D/melee-AOE cloud. Its amazing how far an NPC can run in 1.5 seconds.
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