Righteous Defense "broken"?

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Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Gamingdevil » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:16 am

Just did a heroic and I noticed Righteous Defense seemed to have reverted to it's old behaviour where you had to target ToT yourself, rather than it being done automatically.

Anyone else noticed this?
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Shoju » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:50 am

I didn't see that behavior, but I will be honest, I haven't tanked much of import, and the RF might not have workd, and I might not have noticed.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Gamingdevil » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:17 am

Never mind, it appears to be working fine now.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby econ21 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:36 am

It seems erratic to me - sometimes it works, sometimes not.

I wonder if it is because RD depends on distance between you and the party member who has aggro? You may be in range of the mob, but can't taunt it with RD if you are out of range of its target. Just thinking out loud, because that used to be an issue for me taunting Alar's adds when we did not have Hand of Reckoning.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Palisade » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:41 am

RD is definitely erratic in functionality.

Also, I've noticed that the mouse over macro for HoReck and RD, which I got from EJ, does not seem to be working.

The new blizz party and raid UI seems to not accept mouseover macros. I've double checked my macro coding and they appear to be type right, and I'm getting tooltips to show up. But they will not work in combat.

I was able to use a mouse over macro for Hand of Protection, but only out of combat.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:25 am

I noticed this yesterday on VDW trash. I was like SERIOUSLY it just literally wasn't working. Most of the time it worked fine, and I never had any missed taunts or anything like that since its based off of physical hit.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby makiwara » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:55 am

Any update/confirmation on this? I've been noticing some erratic activity with it as well.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Xkonvikt » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:18 am

Yea, I have noticed erratic behavior too. To the point where it seems I am newb tank. :?
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby theothersteve7 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:43 am

It may be something with your UI. I was having trouble until I realized I had made a transition from Grid + Clique to Vuhdo, so I can't use my standard Clique setup on my target and focus unit frames. It didn't take me long to adjust to simply using raid frames.

Of course, if you're just targeting the mob and hitting the button, yeah, something's wrong.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Xkonvikt » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:56 am

I am actually using taunt master as an add-on. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. But, to have an add-on that lets me know when anyone other then myself is gaining aggro is priceless IMO. I keep the damn thing nearly on top of my avatar, along with my CD action bar. I just wish it would work properly. Maybe someone could take a look at it's LUA and maybe help with a hotfix? I am haven't gotten into being able to read code. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Epimer » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:55 pm

Xkonvikt wrote:I am actually using taunt master as an add-on. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. But, to have an add-on that lets me know when anyone other then myself is gaining aggro is priceless IMO. I keep the damn thing nearly on top of my avatar, along with my CD action bar. I just wish it would work properly. Maybe someone could take a look at it's LUA and maybe help with a hotfix? I am haven't gotten into being able to read code. Thanks in advance.


Taunt Master doesn't work consistently because it's a downright stupid add-on by design. A click-casting add-on for RD use and a decent name plate add-on (e.g Tidy Plates with a theme of your choosing) will let you identify quickly what you don't have aggro on and to get them back ASAP.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Raive » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:51 am

Haven't noticed any problems, though it could be because I still use the old macro

Code: Select all
/cast [help] Righteous Defense; [target=targettarget,help] Righteous Defense
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Doxa » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:41 am

I've felt like I've been having issues with RD for awhile now but haven't really ever thought much of it until I saw this thread. I always just hit HoR immediately afterwards or ShoR to get the target back.

However... last night I intentionally tested this and confirm that it is buggy for me. Multiple times Ret DPS pulled off me and I intentionally let it sit for a moment then hit RD and it simply does nothing at all.

No mouseover macro / clique involved. Just plain targeted the mob. This makes me wonder if it's back to the old "Target the player, not the mob" thing.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby theothersteve7 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:21 am

I'm targeting the player when I use it and I haven't noticed a problem. So the issue (assuming it does exist, which seems reasonable at this point) is indeed limited to targeting the mob with the taunt.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:26 am

I actually got a "resist" message for RD last night in a heroic, according to RSA. I assumed that it was an addon bug.

More pertinent to this conversation, keep in mind that many mobs cast spells now, and may switch to a random target or drop target entirely. This is bad for Righteous Defense, as using it on the mob will transfer the RD cast to the current target, which may not be the highest person on the aggro table.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Doxa » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:16 pm

Confirmed tonight we're back to the target-of-target behavior (i.e. must be cast on a group member).
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Ulrik » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:26 am

Well crap. I thought I had one miss tonight. I guess it's this crap happening. Great.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Gamingdevil » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:23 am

I'm positive I used it on a mob yesterday, worked fine.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:32 am

I know how these things derail quickly into a "I didn't experience it so everyone else must be wrong thing". My post is going to sound like that but I don't actually feel this way.

Here are my observations however:
1. There are a lot of adds that change targets constantly to use abilities on random people. This will jack with RD.
2. Abilities like mind control recently changed, the MC'd mob upon release likes to stick to the mind controller for a bit. I noticed this change and asked the SP about it and he said he noticed it too. Anyone know if there's any fact to that?
3. I do catch "Misses" from RD on occasion and they show in the combat log.

In general, RD has always been *best* used by selecting a player due to the nature of the skill. The mob could change targets at any time and server/client lag can cause unexpected results.

Here is a combat log parse showing a couple misses:

Code: Select all
[19:09:57.179] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Sarina
[19:09:57.282]  Azureborne Destroyer afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[19:10:00.237] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Azureborne Destroyer
[19:10:25.436] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Dethstalker
[19:10:41.589] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Heliaster
[19:10:41.732]  Azureborne Destroyer afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[19:10:44.694] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Azureborne Destroyer
[19:11:12.301] Paperplate Righteous Defense  Azureborne Destroyer Miss *********
[19:11:12.301] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Vraiya
[19:14:15.310] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Fynnia
[19:14:15.335]  Wind Breaker afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[19:14:18.344] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Wind Breaker
[20:01:51.559] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Vemo
[20:01:51.931]  Twilight-shifter afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[20:01:54.891] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Twilight-shifter
[20:02:02.277] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Dethstalker
[20:02:22.419] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Kyleneari
[20:02:22.682]  Twilight Portal Shaper afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[20:02:25.676] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Twilight Portal Shaper
[20:02:43.013] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Grubstealer
[20:02:43.157]  Twilight-shifter afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[20:02:46.130] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Twilight-shifter
[20:04:22.854] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Kyleneari
[20:04:23.052]  Twilight Portal Shaper afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[20:04:23.052]  Twilight Portal Shaper afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[20:04:26.024] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Twilight Portal Shaper
[20:04:26.024] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Twilight Portal Shaper
[20:04:35.818] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Candes
[20:04:35.858]  Twilight-shifter afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[20:04:38.873] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Twilight-shifter
[20:04:46.403] Paperplate Righteous Defense  Twilight-shifter Miss ********
[20:04:46.403] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Silveria
[20:05:45.210] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Ebaytoon
[20:05:45.262]  Twilight Portal Shaper afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[20:05:48.287] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Twilight Portal Shaper
[20:06:15.955] Paperplate casts Righteous Defense on Candes
[20:06:16.264]  Twilight Portal Shaper afflicted by Righteous Defense from Paperplate
[20:06:19.262] Paperplate's Righteous Defense fades from  Twilight Portal Shaper


I do not use any macros. I either taunt from grid + clique or I taunt using RD directly on the mob. I do either interchangeably so I couldn't tell you what I did with the scenarios above.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:41 am

I've been trying to figure out where the misses are coming from since I first encountered one a week or so ago. So far, I only have a few hypotheses:

  1. When taunts were changed to automatically succeed, HoR was changed but RD was not. This would mean RD is still on the spell hit table, which means up to a 9% chance to miss after talents on a level 88. However, the base miss chance against an 87 is only 6%, which is reduced to 0% by Touched by the Light. The Twilight-shifter in your parse is 87, so RD should not miss against it under normal circumstances, even if it were on the spell hit table. That suggests something else is going on.
  2. Maybe RD shows up as a miss when the mob is immune? HoR does show up as "immune" in those cases though. It would be odd, but it could just be a combat log reporting error.
  3. The mob or the player has a buff/debuff that increases chance to miss or invalidates taunts. This sounds like a possibility, and both the Azureborne Destroyer and Twilight-shifter have abilities that fool with aggro.

We should be able to test this:
  • Get two paladins (can be any combination, though tank/healer or tank/tank is probably safest) and wear gear that has 0 hit rating (if Holy, make sure not to take Enlightened Judgements).
  • Find a level 88/skull mob that melees weakly enough that you're not in danger. Let the healer pull healing aggro, and then both paladins alternate RD on the mob until it goes immune.
  • Wait for the immunity to wear off and repeat.

At 9% spell miss chance, there's a 0.9% chance of landing 50 RD's without a miss. 0.008% in 100 RD's.
At 17% (a healer's miss chance), it's 0.009% for 50, and 0.0000008% for 100.
For a tank/healer combination, 50 (25 each) would be 0.09% and 100 (50 each) would be 0.00008%.

If we can't do this on an 88, it's still possible on an 87 if both paladins spec Holy. That's only 6% miss though, so 100 taunts to push the likelihood down 0.2%. 150 would push it down to 0.009% though.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby Flex » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:01 pm

inthedrops wrote:2. Abilities like mind control recently changed, the MC'd mob upon release likes to stick to the mind controller for a bit. I noticed this change and asked the SP about it and he said he noticed it too. Anyone know if there's any fact to that?


Could this be an issue with Fade?
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby daishan » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:23 pm

Hey all
this is my 1st post I'm not sure if this issue has been sorted, tried searching but this was the most recent post i could find.
I was tanking Al'akir tonight and had RD miss twice when used on a party member (a druid and a paly healer) using healbot to target the raid member and trying to taunt the stormlings. I've got logs but don't know how to just link the correct lines of combat txt, here's a world of logs link if someone else can make any sense of it http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/lwnk ... enc=bosses
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby theckhd » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:26 am

[21:52:53.414] Daishan casts Righteous Defense on Glowbot
[21:52:53.666] Stormling afflicted by Righteous Defense from Daishan
[21:52:56.654] Daishan's Righteous Defense fades from Stormling
[21:53:10.696] Daishan casts Righteous Defense on Glowbot
[21:53:55.042] Daishan casts Righteous Defense on Borgrimm
[21:53:55.116] Al'Akir afflicted by Righteous Defense from Daishan
[21:53:58.101] Daishan's Righteous Defense fades from Al'Akir
[21:54:05.839] Daishan Righteous Defense Stormling Miss
[21:54:05.839] Daishan casts Righteous Defense on Leighton
[21:54:05.927] Stormling afflicted by Righteous Defense from Daishan
[21:54:08.949] Daishan's Righteous Defense fades from Stormling
[21:54:23.344] Daishan casts Righteous Defense on Glowbot
[21:54:23.572] Stormling afflicted by Righteous Defense from Daishan
[21:54:26.644] Daishan's Righteous Defense fades from Stormling
[21:54:43.626] Daishan casts Righteous Defense on Raira
[21:54:44.025] Stormling afflicted by Righteous Defense from Daishan
[21:54:47.057] Daishan's Righteous Defense fades from Stormling
[21:54:57.828] Daishan Righteous Defense Stormling Miss


So it's clear RD can miss. It's now just a matter of performing the tests I outlined above to determine what the chance is, and thus what mechanics it's using.
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby daishan » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:09 am

Thx for the quick response,
Would the test still be valid if I used a lvl 80 pally and a lvl 83 mob, or maybe even a 84/85 mob to increase miss chance?
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Re: Righteous Defense "broken"?

Postby theckhd » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:36 pm

Yup, it should work just fine. Just make note of your level, your partner's level, and the mob's level.

Note that lvl 84 Cata mobs might beat the crap out of level 80 testers though. :P
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