4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Faecroll » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:41 am

yea thanks Knaughty - went 8.26% hit 28 expertise and 18.24 mastery which puts me overcap on all those with 20.99 dodge 20.93 parry - seems to be just fine - Ill do Algalon later in the week to seem how truckish he still is- thanks for the quick reply.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Scotty » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:07 am

Given that this is the Basic guide I'd suggest that people are going to want to know about other basic stuff like hit, expertise - that sorta thing.

I'm not saying that you need to document that stuff yourself Knaughty ... but links to the relevant posts would be worthwhile.

And much thanks for the guide (and the chuckles each time I read it)
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Dilvish » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:06 am

After spending some quality time with a practice dummy I tested these suggestions in heroic halls of reflection last night and everything went very smoothly. Hitting ICC10 normal tonight.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:41 am

So my only question is once you have 3 HP, and you have judgment up should you use judgment before shield slam to try and get the crit buff if its not up or just instantly use your holy power.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Zalaria » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:12 am

2Cute2BeStr8 wrote:So my only question is once you have 3 HP, and you have judgment up should you use judgment before shield slam to try and get the crit buff if its not up or just instantly use your holy power.


If you've done the 939 right, judgement won't be up.

Code: Select all
cs, j, cs, as/hw, cs, shor
    ^                 ^ judgement is still on cooldown
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby glmacedo » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:31 am

One question that may be considered stupid... Yesterday, I was testing both CS and HotR on a test dummy and each of them were hitting for about the same damage (a difference of 10 or so dmg in favor of CS), and their mana costs are about the same as well (100 mana difference)

So for the sake of simplicity, why not ignore CS for all but single target bosses and just go to town with HotR?
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby nznova » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:53 pm

I'm really surprised to hear that Hallowed Ground is not worth taking. Without the 80% cost reduction on consecrate, isn't it going to be too expensive to ever use?
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:18 pm

glmacedo wrote:So for the sake of simplicity, why not ignore CS for all but single target bosses and just go to town with HotR?

In end-game gear, apparently HotR hits harder. There's an update coming in 5 minutes.
nznova wrote:I'm really surprised to hear that Hallowed Ground is not worth taking. Without the 80% cost reduction on consecrate, isn't it going to be too expensive to ever use?

I ran some heroics last night with 0/2, AE tanking all the trash, and never got below half mana that I noticed. You don't need Hallowed Ground.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Draslin » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:25 pm

Quick Question (did a search but couldn't find anything useful) - Does Eye for an Eye work on boss fights where there is lots of tank magic damage coming in? Been considering picking it up in this spec (over improved judgement) for heroic sindragosa 10. The strat we use basically uses one tank until he dies, then the other swaps in and finishes out the fight. Eye for an eye could be a considerable amount of threat and damage dealt back to the boss, especially when arcane buffet and frost aura are considered.

Thanks!

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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby ck5uperman » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:44 pm

Has this thread suggested in the most recent update that CS is pointless?
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:52 pm

ck5uperman wrote:Has this thread suggested in the most recent update that CS is pointless?


Did you read the first post or the post before your one? Both mention HotR > CS, as does the actual rotation post.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby martinw » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:40 pm

Question:

The Mastery is some kind of joke?!

If i think about End Game. Why should i increase Mastery if i only get block? Isnt the way like in WoTLK, get Mastery until block capped, then reduce mastery and increase dodge and parry?

For Warriors and Druids its a other thing, they should increase Mastery. Warrior get more critical block and druids more absorb, so what did we get?
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Egtheridon » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:08 pm

On a side note you should probably re-glyph avenger's shield for bosses because now you can reglyph anytime anywhere as long as you got vanishing powder which is like fifty silver. A thirty percent increase is a pretty significant increase in threat, for something that can easily be swapped out.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:12 pm

martinw wrote:For Warriors and Druids its a other thing, they should increase Mastery. Warrior get more critical block and druids more absorb, so what did we get?


It's counterintuitive, but you may not want to trade mastery for avoidance. It has to do with spikiness of damage intake.

What works best for you may not work for someone with a different raid or healing corps.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby martinw » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:10 am

Hmm but where is the sense?

Example:

I reach the blockcap with 40% block, 21% parry and 21% dodge. Why should i increase the masteryrating? The better way is to increase parry and dodge, so that i get on the end f.e. 34% block, 24% parry and 24% dodge.

For Warriors and Druids its a other point, in cause of they have a good effect if they incrase masteryrating.

Hope its understandable.

So f.e. it was an idea to give us damage on block again and with higher masteryrating the damage we cause with block increase.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Egtheridon » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:47 am

once you reach block cap ofcourse you are gonna go for dodge or parry, but i think the point of increasing your mastery first is to reach it, because point for point its really cheap to increase block rating through mastery. and according to the latest beta build its three percent instead of two and the bas amount is a lot higher too lol.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby towelliee » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:29 am

knaughty wrote:Links:

My Advanced FAQ is linked form my sig. Of course, it doesn't exist yet.

Towell-e-i-e-i-o's YouTube Channel Lots of Beta videos of level 85 content and mechanics. Good for getting a feel for what we're facing in December. Remember it's beta - older vids will be of obsolete mechanics. He's also having to make a lot of stuff up before the MATLAB was done.

4.0.1 Mastery/reforging guide If you want the details of how to reforge you gear for raiding ICC/Halion at level 80, check out this thread.

Theck's 4.0 Talent & Glyph guide The Canonical Source for talent & glyph weighting.

Theck's MATLAB & pounding headaches post. Go here for a migraine.


More links to come once we have more 4.0 content up - Basic FAQ appears to be one of the earlier major pieces since I rushed to get it out for 4.0.1


Thanks for the look out man I really Appreciate it. I'm updating every night. And now with the HOTR news I am going to go with that for tomorrows ICC HM 25 raid.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Jusi » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:45 am

Fantastic FAQ for a nub tank like me, let me fully understand 4.0 changes. Thanks a lot!

Q: OMG, 4.0.1 patch and I have to raid in 5 minutes tell me how to spec?
A: 0/31/4


Link seems broken, halp!
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby edsdame » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:50 am

Jusi wrote:Link seems broken, halp!



Works for me.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby econ21 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:12 am

One basic question that might go into a FAQ is what opening moves to make during a pull. I suggest Exo>J>AS>HotR (or CS)>1HPoSoR>Cons and then go to 939 rotation.

I've opened a discussion thread on this, but would welcome more feedback and discussion:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Jusi » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:11 am

edsdame wrote:
Jusi wrote:Link seems broken, halp!

Works for me.

That's what I'm getting on both Webkit and Firefox: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3871932/Screen% ... .06.02.png
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby sealava » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:18 am

^^ yep , its broken .
seems all the linked builds using that site are broken also .
would be helpful if posted on wowhead instead , seems more stable atm.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby edsdame » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:22 am

Image

This is what I get.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Gamingdevil » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:44 am

I don't really see the "HotR hits harder than CS" I just tested it on a dummy (which isn't easy, since HotR gives two hits) and my CS was hitting for 1900-2000 while HotR was hitting for 1650-1800 (rough values). And that's with the T10 2-pieces and glyph of HotR.

This was with kings and might on myself and a 12% armor debuff on the boss from a random warrior.
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby d503 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:51 am

You guys need to clear your cache on wowtal...if you're using Firefox, ctrl+shift+R, Chrome ctrl+f5, IE (god help you) ctrl+f5.

That will force a cache-dump and refresh.

Likely, your browser is pointing to an older version of the calculator from a prior build.
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