Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby bldavis » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:35 am

Arcand wrote:
Folstar wrote:DKs & Army- they should be using it all the time. As buttons go AoTD is just about the most powerful one anyone can push in WoW- why wouldn't you want DKs using it???


There are DKs who aren't discriminating about when to hit that key, is the trouble. It causes the tank to lose facing control and positioning control of the boss, which means...

* You can't drag Ymiron away from his doom-orbs
* You can't kite that ethereal guy away from his doom-orbs
* You can't keep dragons' mouths and tails pointed in safe directions
* You can't pull The Black Knight out of desecration
* You can't pull the undead rogue out of poison puddles
* You can't point Mal'Ganis's carrion swarm, Ingvar's Dark Smash or Anub'arak's Pound away from the group
* Melee DPS get knocked back and/or cloven
* Various other bad things

...and just because most of us outgear those fights to the point where we can be sloppy and still win, doesn't mean sloppiness is a virtue.


this is why i dont like army

on the other hand, there is army vs army in H-ToC(5man) when the BK does army in P2, have the dk pop it then and then burn down the knight
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby Arcand » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:46 am

Desecration problems aside, the phase 2 Ghoul-O-Rama is pretty fun to watch. :D
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby bldavis » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:48 am

yes

yes it is :twisted:
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby Vorianloken » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:04 am

bldavis wrote:this is why i dont like army

on the other hand, there is army vs army in H-ToC(5man) when the BK does army in P2, have the dk pop it then and then burn down the knight


my favorite thing to do on the paladin is to let him pop army, then pop my AW and holy wrath and just pew pew in the desecration while I also pop my trinkets :P
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby bldavis » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:15 am

that is what i do too, unless i have a dk in the group! :twisted:

AotD is an amazing ability, but only if it is used properly
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby Vorianloken » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:21 am

I forgot to add consecration in there :)
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby kysu » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:30 am

greatcow95 wrote:I despise Death and Decay along with every other AoE "Circle of Turds" attack, simply because everything tends to beat me laying down the Golden Pally Fart. I also hate the DK using Army of IWIN every time it comes up.



^ I laughed for a while not gonna lie
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby Koatanga » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:25 pm

If a hunter who leaves growl on his pet is a baddie, what do you call a DPS DK who summons a host of pets, all of them with growl on?

If you're not tanking, don't use it.

It would be like a ret paladin using HoR every cooldown to increase his DPS.

Hrm... maybe I should do that to DK tanks...
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby Arcand » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:49 pm

Koatanga wrote:If a hunter who leaves growl on his pet is a baddie, what do you call a DPS DK who summons a host of pets, all of them with growl on?


Well, the difference is that there's no upside to pet Growl. It interferes with the tank, redirects attacks onto a target probably more squishy than the tank, and costs a bit of resource which should be spent on doing damage. Full stop.

Army has all of those drawbacks, but also produces a dramatic burst of area damage without adding any threat to the user. So you can't say that casting it is automatically a bad move.
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby Playdoh » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:20 pm

AotD is fun. There are good uses for it and bad uses.

1.) BAD USE - mirror of souls h FOS. funny but will be a wipe.
2.) BAD USE - AN - anub or anywhere where the mob has to be pointed away or in a specific area, and said mob does not die really quickly.

good uses - loken, h hos bronzebeard event, anub submerge phase,

once tanks get used to it, it's really not that big of a deal.

paladin's have it the worst for AotD, not from a threat issue but how we get mana back. AotD will mana starve me to the point that sometimes i just won't attack.
i.e. h vh - divine plea on cd because of portal spawns, army popped and i am already 1/4 mana. Things are not hitting me for sanctuary to proc or heals to give me back mana.

It's knowing the things you have to do to compensate for AotD is what is important, not that it isn't a good spell. It used to annoy the hell out of me though, because of the mana starving issue.
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby greatcow95 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:37 pm

kysu wrote:
greatcow95 wrote:I despise Death and Decay along with every other AoE "Circle of Turds" attack, simply because everything tends to beat me laying down the Golden Pally Fart. I also hate the DK using Army of IWIN every time it comes up.



^ I laughed for a while not gonna lie


Well, I'm just here to entertain, not inform. :D

I also forgot to rant against the IWINstorm Warrior.
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby Hokahey » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:01 pm

greatcow95 wrote:I also forgot to rant against the IWINstorm Warrior.


I find a well-geared cleave-aholic WhirlIWIN Warrior to be more painful. I had a friend who was bitching up a storm about one until I explained that Whirlwind, HS/Cleave, and BT is about all he can do, so its either accept the threat issues and work with him, or expect him to do nothing for about half a pull. Fortunately, he chose the former.

Although, I've noticed some Arms Warriors that like to use Mocking Blow while I'm tanking, but the issue isn't Bladestorm there. They also tend to do roughly 900 DPS overall. :roll:
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby Koatanga » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:18 pm

Arcand wrote:Well, the difference is that there's no upside to pet Growl. It interferes with the tank, redirects attacks onto a target probably more squishy than the tank, and costs a bit of resource which should be spent on doing damage. Full stop.

Army has all of those drawbacks, but also produces a dramatic burst of area damage without adding any threat to the user. So you can't say that casting it is automatically a bad move.
When I am the tank, I can say that it is automatically a bad move.

My job is to control aggro in the fight. It is not the job of the DPS. If you were running as a ret pally, would you consider using Hand of Reckoning on tauntable mobs to increase your damage done? I would hope not.

It's not OK to taunt off the tank to increase your damage output, whether it is you, your pet, or a host of expendable pets.

The last time a DK pulled that garbage on me, I stopped attacking and let him have the boss. If he wants to taunt off me, he can have it.
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby greatcow95 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:23 pm

Koatanga wrote:
Arcand wrote:Well, the difference is that there's no upside to pet Growl. It interferes with the tank, redirects attacks onto a target probably more squishy than the tank, and costs a bit of resource which should be spent on doing damage. Full stop.

Army has all of those drawbacks, but also produces a dramatic burst of area damage without adding any threat to the user. So you can't say that casting it is automatically a bad move.
When I am the tank, I can say that it is automatically a bad move.

My job is to control aggro in the fight. It is not the job of the DPS. If you were running as a ret pally, would you consider using Hand of Reckoning on tauntable mobs to increase your damage done? I would hope not.

It's not OK to taunt off the tank to increase your damage output, whether it is you, your pet, or a host of expendable pets.

The last time a DK pulled that garbage on me, I stopped attacking and let him have the boss. If he wants to taunt off me, he can have it.


Do you DI the healer like I do so everyone gets pissed? Because there are at least 2 other DPS that are probably still DPS-ing at this point in the game.
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Re: Is the tank happy with me using Death and Decay?

Postby Arcand » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:38 am

Koatanga wrote:When I am the tank, I can say that it is automatically a bad move.


Anyone can say it's a bad move, but that doesn't mean they're right. Can you explain what harm Army is doing, aside from ruffling your feathers?

My job is to control aggro in the fight. It is not the job of the DPS. If you were running as a ret pally, would you consider using Hand of Reckoning on tauntable mobs to increase your damage done?


I've used it to one-shot severely injured bad guys that were out of my reach, so yes. Would you have considered that a bad move?

It's not OK to taunt off the tank to increase your damage output, whether it is you, your pet, or a host of expendable pets.


The lack of nuance or qualification in this statement makes me not like it. Seems dogmatic. Doesn't it depend on the damage output? "The tank must hold all aggro always" is false, impractical and unnecessarily rigid.
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