Threat Issues

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Threat Issues

Postby Xand » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:34 am

Hello!

After playing a mage since release I decided to do a reroll till cata at least, I dinged my pally about 4/5 weeks ago and am now the OT for my guild.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Neptulon&cn=Gamonetta&gn=GrimSoul+Legion
(ignore the offspec, wanted to try it for OT'ing queen)

As you can see i've geared up fairly quickly and have a comfortable level of gear for icc, however i'm having some pretty severe threat issues, i've been running the 6969 rotation close to flawlessly.

my main problem is intitial threat on some bosses, I've had the mt take threat off me in the first 15 seconds without taunting and just can't see where im going wrong.

my other problem is keeping threat on trash packs i.e. the pull on the landing before lana'thel, i've generally been keeping one/two mobs in comparison to the mt's 4/5 any pointers?
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby blkthunder » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:37 am

Is the MT another paladin? Duece prot pallys have bad synergy with threat. usually its one keeping 3 with hotr and the other keeping the rest.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Xand » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:43 am

Nope, It's a Warrior, and i've had issue when its just me doing trash if he nips afk or anything
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby kanst » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:05 am

On boss fights, I open hand of reckoning, avengers shield, then sheild of righteousness. If I am getting a tricks of the trade I wait for that to expire then I pop wings. If not pop wings once I get to him. After that point threat isnt much of an issue unless there are lots of stuns and such.

On trash I shifted a few pts around in my spec to pick up seal of command, which really helps keep threat on all the targets. But other then that, tab target like mad, and convince your rogues to give you tricks of the trade with fan of knives
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby blkthunder » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:24 am

Depends on the mob types... if they're undead theres absolutely no reason you should ever lose aggro. HW = best aoe threat in the game. But usually you'll want to HoR, captain america, tab HotR, SoR, then consecrate... i very seldom use holy shield when aoe tanking.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Discus » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:34 pm

Although it's illegal to admit to threat issues on MT, after a wonderful honeymoon period I have started to have the odd early fight issues too, especially on groups of trash.

What helped me (bearing in mind I'm an utter noob/casual) was swapping all my 10 defense/15 stam gems for 10 hit/15 stamina gems. This is very naughty and should never be done.

One should never ever gem for anything but stamina/EH but well, I did and it really helped. Certainly makes life in PUGs easier as in my experience there's always some idiot dps who can't control their aggro. In an ideal world we can say you pull aggro you tank it (as is standard advice here) but in reality that means a lot of wasted time, collapsed PUGs and abuse.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby blkthunder » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:36 pm

Discus wrote:Although it's illegal to admit to threat issues on MT, after a wonderful honeymoon period I have started to have the odd early fight issues too, especially on groups of trash.

What helped me (bearing in mind I'm an utter noob/casual) was swapping all my 10 defense/15 stam gems for 10 hit/15 stamina gems. This is very naughty and should never be done.

One should never ever gem for anything but stamina/EH but well, I did and it really helped. Certainly makes life in PUGs easier as in my experience there's always some idiot dps who can't control their aggro. In an ideal world we can say you pull aggro you tank it (as is standard advice here) but in reality that means a lot of wasted time, collapsed PUGs and abuse.



Lol i like this. Im not gonna lie if i need threat you better believe i put on my "hit set" thats hit capped and throw up a DMC:G and a black icicle. But this is only on trash where i try to compete with dps on dmg done. If you're having issues with threat on a raid boss, you better be getting MD's Trix and aggro dumps or its the dps's fault.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby kanst » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:20 pm

I tank all trash and first tier bosses, with my 251 tier gloves enchanted/gemmed for strength (they arent in my MT set until i get a token) ret neck, ret bracers and a DMC:G. There are very few fights where I am wearing my max EH set.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby inthedrops » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:51 am

I don't see any problem gemming hit if it solves specific problems and produces the wanted outcome. There is no reason for people to be so strict on themselves when it comes to theorycrafting, best practices, etc. Knowing when to break the rules is smart, not dumb.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Sir_Onion » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:40 am

Ok, well since I cbfed for the whole hit discussion (Seeing how she is at 7.11% hit, who honestly cares?)

I'll tell you what I do for single target bosses where I am having a threat problem. Two things that make a world of difference: Libram of Valiance and a Slow DPS weapon. 200 more strength and a stronger HoR and SoV will boost your threat considerably. Especially when you know our rotation. Don't worry, as long as your defensed capped a melee DPS weapon is perfect. (I would suggest trying the frost giants cleaver, or the gutbuster in ten man ICC. Or Quel'delar if you really want to piss people off. :P ) And 3% dodge < 200 strength generally speaking. But that's for another argument.

Now if Mr. Warrior feels like being a dick and still pull threat, Hand of Salvation him. If he continues, Hand of Protection him. Oh and if he is throwing vigilance on you and you are having problems with threat, right click it off. After all, if he is offtanking he shouldn't be pulling threat and if that means he has to gimp his rotation to make sure he doesn't pull threat, get use to it.

For trash pulls, I would see what he is doing, it's not often a warrior can yank threat from us, obviously keep down consecrate, Holy wrath whenever it comes off cool down, use HoR, all that fun stuff. Watch to see if he is spamming taunts or using challenging shout. Or it could be that he is just a really good warrior, and can't do much there. Though switching to a slow DPS weapon can and will make a difference.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby cerwillis » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:18 pm

blkthunder wrote:i very seldom use holy shield when aoe tanking.


Having a hard time wrapping my head around this one. Holy shield creates a large amount of threat, adds a huge amount of block rating, and actually makes mana back with BoSanct. It's a personal choice i guess, but I wouldn't encourage others to do this.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby blkthunder » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:01 pm

I was under the impression HS aggro benefits were marginal at best. http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?p=521490&rb_v=viewtopic#p521490

Sure its a no brainer to try and get it up for dmg reduction but the reality of the matter is that on pulls of 6+ it'll be gone before its back up in the rotation anyway. Usual aoe pulls are more about tab judge, hotr, avengers shield, HoR the dumbass thats single targeting and HoJ to reduce a bit of dmg. Sure once you have them all glued to you HS is a smart idea but it has zero snap threat if the mobs run right past you and right through ur consecrate for that matter.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby cerwillis » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:40 pm

That is single target tanking that you linked to. Using up all of the charges before the CD is up, I see that as a good thing. that means that you have: more mana than you did before casting it, more blocked attacks, increased dps and threat, at the loss of 1 GCD.

I agree that you cant "point" HS at a target and say "threat there!" but if you do your initial pull with AS, and have holy shield up, as long as they hit you once on the shield, I guarantee it will help you keep threat off of blizzard/RoF - happy casters.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby blkthunder » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:07 pm

Maybe I misread that particular post in reference to aoe threat vs single target threat :shock: I am used to having dps that'll open up their aoe before the mobs even really start hitting me so 9 out of 10 times in my situation HS is an ineffective aggro tool till i have full control of the pack. Such is not the case in some peoples situations but with trigger happy dps you gotta do what you gotta do. And IDK about you guys but if I have 6 mobs beating on me i get all the mana i need from SA and dodge/miss/parry.
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