Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

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Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby SoraValentine » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:47 am

Hi there.

I am actually levelling a paladin tank...

He is level 15. (Yeah, I know. >.<)

Anyways, I have seen that 102.4% block thing is the highest you can get.
Doesn't that mean that you will block 100% of the time? I don't understand. Could you please get back to me? Thanks.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby Gamingdevil » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:49 am

If you get to 102.4% combined chance to be missed/dodge/parry or block. The attack table is filled. This means that every incoming hit that isn't avoided will be blocked, meaning no regular hits can get in. And it would be pointless to stack more block after that since it's the first to be pushed off the table.

For more info on the attack table, Theck has a topic over in advanced training.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby Arjuna » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:21 am

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=6&t=17075&rb_v=viewtopic

Block Cap

After you are Uncrittable, you should start working towards the The Block Cap. This may be a new concept for Paladin tanks, but it really isn't. The Block Cap is what used to be known as Uncrushable, i.e. a combined Miss, Parry, Dodge, and Block of 102.4%. Once you reach that point, any additional Block Rating falls off the table. You are 'capped' on the amount of Block you can have. It should be noted that since Holy Shield was changed to have its duration be longer than it's cooldown, it is now safe to assume 100% uptime on Holy Shield when calculating your Block Cap. Holy Shield is 30% chance to block.

Being at the Block Cap is very helpful because it means that every unavoided attack from the Boss will be a Block. Paladins are the only class now that can stay Block Capped 100% of the time. Each Block takes off damage equal to your Block Value. If the Boss hits for 40,000 and you have 2000 Block Value (not unreasonable), you effectively shave off 5% of the damage each and every hit. That can add up to a huge amount of damage reduction over the course of the fight.

It also provides Paladins with a predictable damage intake, and makes life easier for your healers.

The Block Cap is especially effective for tanking adds on Anub’arak.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby SoraValentine » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:52 am

Arjuna wrote:http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=6&t=17075&rb_v=viewtopic

Block Cap
"..."

5% of the damage each and every hit. That can add up to a huge amount of damage reduction over the course of the fight.

It also provides Paladins with a predictable damage intake, and makes life easier for your healers.

The Block Cap is especially effective for tanking adds on Anub’arak.


So, if you block the attack do you still take damage? What is the percentage of the damage getting through based on?
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby amh » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:02 am

Each Block takes off damage equal to your Block Value. If the Boss hits for 40,000 and you have 2000 Block Value (not unreasonable), you effectively shave off 5% of the damage each and every hit. That can add up to a huge amount of damage reduction over the course of the fight.


You removed the part with your answer :)
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby SoraValentine » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:01 am

I see. Thanks. So, why have 102.4%? Why not just stop at 100%? It is like having a glass of water and a few drops compared to just having a glass of water, (moral of the example: you only need to drink on glass of water "100%" to become hydrated)

sorry if I seem noob. I have a healer, just never had a tank before.

Also, what is most important?

Agility, strength, defense rating or block?

Sorry for my late replies. iPhone ftw.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:12 am

The stats you see on your character sheet are calculated against a level 80 enemy. Bosses count as level 83, and as such your chance to avoid, block, be crit, and so on are all diminished by the level difference. 102.4% on your character sheet is equivalent to 100% against a boss level mob.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby Jirroll » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:45 pm

Something I've long wanted to ask about that kind of goes with this thread regarding 102.4%.

My current gear isn't the best, but it's not too horrible. It's alot of Truiph badge Gear, some new Heroic Gear and high end Naxx stuff. The thing is on my "Main raid" set that is all about the avoidance, defense, and finally hitpoints, I can not make 102.4 when Holy Shield is active. It's more like 98%.

What I have been fuzzy on is...does it even matter? Do you need 102.4% on a Main Tank Raid set? On the other hand, on my full on stacked BV set, I am like at 106%...so I am way over and I know anything over 102.4 is useless. So what does one do.

By the way, is there a cap when you should stop stacking Block Value? I'm at like 3000 now, not even counting the Libram addition of 450, and that's not even in the best Block Value Gear I can get. I've been running Normal Halls and Forge for these 2 BV items that will not drop for me...and I'm starting to wonder if I should even bother.

Thanks.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby Koatanga » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:12 pm

The merit of block cap and block value depends on the content you are tanking. The smaller the hits, the greater influence block value has. If you have a 5k incomming hit, and you block 3k of it, that's awesome - you'll want to block every one. If you have a 30k incoming hit and you block 3k, that's not so impressive - stam may be more important than block cap or value.

For Naxx, block was awesome. For ToC, block is really only useful in one fight: off-tanking Anub's adds.

Since nobody really runs Naxx anymore, and since Ulduar is faceroll these days, you may as well stack stam instead of worrying about block.

Pure avoidance is still nice to have. In the Deathbringer fight, for example, the boss gains energy every time he damages you. Not only does your dodge prevent you from taking damage, it prevents the boss from gaining energy. I don't think block prevents him from gaining energy, but I could be wrong.

One place where block cap worth knowing is when making the choice between defense rating or dodge. All else being equal, defense rating is better if you are under 102.4%, and dodge is better if you are over 102.4%. This is because defense rating boosts dodge, parry, and block. If the block boost is meaningless because you are capped for block value, defense rating loses enough of its effectiveness to give dodge the lead.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby Digren » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:13 am

Koatanga wrote:One place where block cap worth knowing is when making the choice between defense rating or dodge. All else being equal, defense rating is better if you are under 102.4%, and dodge is better if you are over 102.4%. This is because defense rating boosts dodge, parry, and block. If the block boost is meaningless because you are capped for block value, defense rating loses enough of its effectiveness to give dodge the lead.

This is close though either way. In some places, such as (for example) the stamina substitution tables that Theck and Meloree worked out, both defense and dodge are lumped in as a single category called "avoidance" and the value of the two are roughly assigned to be equal.

It's rare to make a decision directly between dodge (even via agility) and defense. One of the rare places is with the cloak enchant, and there the 16 def enchant is clearly inferior to the 23 agility enchant, in that the agility enchant provides the dodge % equivalent to about 18 dodge rating plus around 50 armor and around 0.5% crit rating. The 16 def enchant is only best when necessary to maintain the defense minimum.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby Alixander » Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:49 am

Koatanga wrote:In the Deathbringer fight, for example, the boss gains energy every time he damages you. Not only does your dodge prevent you from taking damage, it prevents the boss from gaining energy. I don't think block prevents him from gaining energy, but I could be wrong.
Sorry for the short derailment, but no. Please stop spreading this misinformation. It was originally believed that, once he put Mark of the Fallen Champion on a target, that if the tank avoided incoming attacks, it would cause him not to get Blood Power, but this has been disproven thanks to poster's like Kihra who have logged their Deathbringer fights. The damage and BP gain from Mark of the Fallen Champion happens whether you are hit, avoid, block, or are missed.

Kihra's posts here sums up the situation.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby hitzugaya » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:53 am

The 102.4% is kind of out of date information. There used to be another kind of hit that boss mobs could give to you called a crushing blow. A crushing blow is a kind of minicrit for 1.5x the damage of a normal hit which could come close to 1 shotting a tank. 102.4% avoidance means all of the hits against you will be at least blocked. That means no hits can be crushing blows. So 102.4% avoidance used to be almost as important as 540 (or 490 as it was) defence. These days mobs need to be at least 4(?) levels higher than the player to inflict a crushing blow. Since boss mobs are only 3 levels higher you dont need to worry about them anymore so the 102.4% isnt anywhere near as important. It will still shave off a sizable amount of block value damage, but you wont get 1 shot below it.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby Lionnis » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:43 am

hitzugaya wrote:The 102.4% is kind of out of date information.


Indeed, i'd say it's still good information to know though.

So far the only gimmick fight we've seen in WoLTK where the block cap comes into play in a huge role was Anub. Having personally tanked all 4 of those adds I can say those were also only level 82 so you could get away with slightly less; 101.6 total if I recall.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby badgermonkey » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:24 am

Also remember the block cap is impossible to attain in Icecrown.


At lower level paladin, I just stacked strength and stamin. Tanking below level 80 doesn't matter as long as you have a pile of stamina, because you won't have enough avoidances for any kind anyway. My bear, for example, is level 31, has about 12% avoidance, and tanks everything awesomely.
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Re: Hi there! Discussion: 102.4%. What's up with that?

Postby lythac » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:07 pm

badgermonkey wrote:Also remember the block cap is impossible to attain in Icecrown.


Not impossible, but stupid to aim for and will do your gear more harm than good.
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