Judgement overwrite question...

[JU1CYFRU1T]

My guild is VERY Paladin heavy, so we seem to constantly have the same discussions about who is judging what, who gives out which blessings etc, etc.

As a tank, and one of the more "read" palladins, people generally turn to me for resolution. Of all the pallies in our guild I spend the most time doing research BY FAR... but I was asked a question the other day that I couldn't "officially" answer, so I wanted to bring it here to this community.

One of our healadins stated that Judgements still overwrite each other in 5-mans, and that the fix that was made in 3.2 only effects raids. Since I can't seem to find any information either way about that (I tried searching, but came up empty), I couldn't say "you are wrong" even though I am sure he is.

I know that a non-Divinitied JoL will overwrite a JoL with Divinity (+5% healing), but that isn't really what we are talking about when we say "overwritten". I am talking about making sure that Judgements of the Just and Vindication are not falling off the boss. I could give two turds and the bowl they float in about that extra 5% tick from JoL. If that is the difference between a win or a wipe... there are other problems that need to be addressed immediately. I just want to be 100% sure that I am correct in thinking that Just/Vengence don't fall off with two pallies judging wisdom before I tell this healadin to STFU.

[Alixander]

I just want to be 100% sure that I am correct in thinking that Just/Vengence don't fall off with two pallies judging wisdom before I tell this healadin to STFU.

Judgement of the Just and other effects tied to using Judgement are now separate debuffs that will stay up as long as there is at least one Judgement effect on the target (assuming their duration hasn't expired).

If you're seeing the JotJ debuff disappear, it's possible that you've got a DK who's putting a fully upgraded version of Frost Fever up on the target and that's overwriting it (as FF gives a DoT + slow, it takes priority).

[Arcand]

I just want to be 100% sure that I am correct in thinking that Just/Vengence don't fall off with two pallies judging wisdom before I tell this healadin to STFU.

I'm sure you mean 'tell this healadin that he seems to be mistaken, as per the following evidence'.

We don't encourage STFU-ing for the crime of being wrong about a computer game mechanic.

[Snake-Aes]

Mr Frut. Remind him that there is no pve change that is specific to raid zones that isn't specified as "only works in raid zones". I can't recall a single change made within that scope.
The fix is *global*. There is a separate Judgment debuff for JotJ that has it's own duration and only relies on your own judgment to send it the monster's way.



The judgment can only be overwritten by one thing: Improved Frost Fever. And only because it has the jotj's slow AND a DoT on top of it, so you aren't losing anything.

[JU1CYFRU1T]

I just want to be 100% sure that I am correct in thinking that Just/Vengence don't fall off with two pallies judging wisdom before I tell this healadin to STFU.

I'm sure you mean 'tell this healadin that he seems to be mistaken, as per the following evidence'.

We don't encourage STFU-ing for the crime of being wrong about a computer game mechanic.

While I understand the "desire to be nice", this is one of those people, who has played a Healadin since the launch of BC (we are Horde), and tries to explain why it is more important for him to judge light than our MT (who is a Tankadin). When that was shot down (pre-3.2), and he was told that the tank was juding light... he then says "the I will judge wisdom".

Um... no, *I* (the Retadin) will judge wisdom, becuase not only will I keep the judgement up for 99% of the time (as opposed to him judging "at least once per minute")... but I have Judgements of the Wise, so the entire raid (we only run 10-mans) will be getting the buff.

Now that 3.2 has come and gone, he has nothing to complain about... so he wants to show his "all encompassing knowledge of the Paladin class" by telling new pallies what they should be judging... how they should spec... he's just a "know it all" who needs to be put in his place from time-to-time.

Mr Frut. Remind him that there is no pve change that is specific to raid zones that isn't specified as "only works in raid zones". I can't recall a single change made within that scope.
The fix is *global*. There is a separate Judgment debuff for JotJ that has it's own duration and only relies on your own judgment to send it the monster's way.



The judgment can only be overwritten by one thing: Improved Frost Fever. And only because it has the jotj's slow AND a DoT on top of it, so you aren't losing anything.

Thanks to everyone for affirming what I knew to be true. I was certain that the mechanic to effect only raids and not 5-mans wasn't there... but I know that at times Blizzard has made changes that only effect PvP... so I didn't want to start stating things as fact when I wasn't 100% sure.

I will put this issue to rest tonight. I may try to be polite, but that will really depend on how he responds to my initial statement. He tends to be a "that's the way things have always been, so that's how they are" kinda guy... which really bothers me in a game of patches and (sometimes unannounced) hotfixes.