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Mandatory 969?

Postby Rinewalt » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:55 am

I've read all of the early posts in the FEQ's regarding the 969 rotation and I believe I grasp the concept. My question is this: Is maintaining the rotation "mandatory" to maintain aggro while engaged with raid bosses or is it something that should be practiced tanking ALL bosses? I just dinged 76 this morning and admit to being relatively inexperienced tanking instances, but of those that I have I do not recall having ever lost aggro on any bosses. And that was with an 80 healer. I do try to maintain a consistent rotation, but also know that I haven't been 100% in doing so. So, again, the question is - is this something I need to be worrying about now or should it just be considered practice once I am able to start raiding?
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Epimer » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:04 am

It's something you should start practicing now. There's a little bit of a learning curve but once you have it down it'll very quickly become second nature.

What you're doing now might be sufficient for the groups you're running with now, but at some point you're going to be grouped with DPS who out-gear you and the difference between "sufficient" and "optimal" is going to become noticeable :)
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Njall » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:08 am

Rinewalt wrote:I've read all of the early posts in the FEQ's regarding the 969 rotation and I believe I grasp the concept. My question is this: Is maintaining the rotation "mandatory" to maintain aggro while engaged with raid bosses or is it something that should be practiced tanking ALL bosses? I just dinged 76 this morning and admit to being relatively inexperienced tanking instances, but of those that I have I do not recall having ever lost aggro on any bosses. And that was with an 80 healer. I do try to maintain a consistent rotation, but also know that I haven't been 100% in doing so. So, again, the question is - is this something I need to be worrying about now or should it just be considered practice once I am able to start raiding?


Its not mandatory but highly recommended. Consider it a 'best practice'. The 969 rotation is not the highest threat generating rotation but it is the best compromise between threat and mitigation (keeping up Holy Shield). However, do not be blinded to other necessities such as occasional taunts, HoPs, and the care and feeding of stupid dps and/or healers (the former can die, of course). The problem becomes more pronounced in the end game - as the threat output of some DPS in raids and heroics can be staggeringly high. You may find yourself being out threat at this point - or not. If not, you're doing it right. If you are being out threated, you may need to pay more attention to your rotation or spend more time slapping DPS upside the head.
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Arcand » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:14 am

Well, if your DPS are weak enough, you can hold aggro with autoattacks. If they're slightly better than that, you can randomly mash buttons and hold aggro.

But you're leveling up relatively late in the expansion. When you start raiding, you'll be wearing the gear some of us were wearing eleven months ago...and your DPS could be wearing full Triumph stuff, doing 5000 DPS on trash and even more on bosses.

If they're careful, they'll ride you on threat and wish you were generating more. If they're not careful, they'll rip things off you and it'll look like your fault...and it partially will be.

The very best that you can do to prevent that kind of trouble is to run the 696 rotation. That's completely within your control so if you choose not to do it, you're underachieving on purpose. You have all the abilities the rotation uses right now, so why not start getting used to it? Tank a dummy for a while* until you've pretty much got it down, then go do some dungeons. Do it until you don't have to think about it or look at the keys, and when you start raiding you'll be able to concentrate on not standing in the fire.

*If you practice on a dummy, skip over Consecrate or you'll run out your mana awfully fast. Just go 69696 then say 'Consecrate' to yourself without hitting the key. 69696-Consecrate. 69696-Consecrate.
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Arcand » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:20 am

Njall wrote:You may find yourself being out threat at this point - or not. If not, you're doing it right. If you are being out threated, you may need to pay more attention to your rotation or spend more time slapping DPS upside the head.


And if you start blaming the DPS for the threat problem, and somebody knowledgeable notices that you're not doing an optimal threat rotation...they'll rip you a new ass, and you'll deserve it. :)
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Njall » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:40 am

Arcand wrote:
Njall wrote:You may find yourself being out threat at this point - or not. If not, you're doing it right. If you are being out threated, you may need to pay more attention to your rotation or spend more time slapping DPS upside the head.


And if you start blaming the DPS for the threat problem, and somebody knowledgeable notices that you're not doing an optimal threat rotation...they'll rip you a new ass, and you'll deserve it. :)


Indeed. I was being polite. For what it is worth, my threat output is fairly optimal - I use the 969 with a frontloaded taunt + AS - and the only time I lose threat is when someone is being stupid. Occasionally, that person is me but usually it is a DPS attacking something I haven't got threat on yet or simply over-dpsing. Hunters doing massive volley fire without feign death is a particular annoyance in heroics.

Actually, I never have threat issues on the bosses. Trash is about the only place where I find myself occasionally taunting a mob off a dps or having to do some rescue work.
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Rinewalt » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:09 pm

Njall wrote:
Arcand wrote:
Njall wrote:You may find yourself being out threat at this point - or not. If not, you're doing it right. If you are being out threated, you may need to pay more attention to your rotation or spend more time slapping DPS upside the head.


And if you start blaming the DPS for the threat problem, and somebody knowledgeable notices that you're not doing an optimal threat rotation...they'll rip you a new ass, and you'll deserve it. :)


Indeed. I was being polite. For what it is worth, my threat output is fairly optimal - I use the 969 with a frontloaded taunt + AS - and the only time I lose threat is when someone is being stupid. Occasionally, that person is me but usually it is a DPS attacking something I haven't got threat on yet or simply over-dpsing. Hunters doing massive volley fire without feign death is a particular annoyance in heroics.

Actually, I never have threat issues on the bosses. Trash is about the only place where I find myself occasionally taunting a mob off a dps or having to do some rescue work.


I'm glad you said that because that was going to be the second half of my question...
I typically start any pull with a taunt then AS. Is this standardized as optimal, or is there a preferred intro for generating aggro?
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Njall » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:14 pm

Rinewalt wrote:

I'm glad you said that because that was going to be the second half of my question...
I typically start any pull with a taunt then AS. Is this standardized as optimal, or is there a preferred intro for generating aggro?


It is what I do. Everyone has their own method of starting but its fairly popular way of getting the best front-end loaded threat. I might drop a consecrate before tossing out the Hand of Rekoning if I feel the need and I might pop wings if I am feeling ambitious.. I often throw AS while closing but the problem with AS is that it slows down the mobs and they may aggro onto over-eager DPS if you are not careful - hence the Consecrate.

Of course, I will usually kite the mobs towards the next set or far enough that I can taunt the next pack in to the melee... thus preserving my threat total as much as possible.
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Arcand » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:15 pm

It's a bit situational. A major factor is whether the bad guys will run to you on their own, or if they need to be silenced/LOSed.

Things you can do to improve your 'pickup power':

* Have Consecration down before you pull. Bad threat/mana, but it helps threat/second.
* Have Holy Shield on before the bad guys reach you. This goes double if you have a BV libram because it'll make your first slam hit harder.
* Throw Avenger's Shield just before they reach you, rather than immediately. Less time waiting for dazed mobs to cover distance = less time for your DPS to get impatient and start doing dumb DPS stuff.
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Njall » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:18 pm

Do that.
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Koatanga » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:34 pm

It's not just raids. The first thing you'll do when you hit 80 is go to the AH and buy all the BoE items you can afford, then you'll hit the heroics.

If you hit that nice sexy Random button to get extra badges, you'll end up with some people who are just badge-farming in their T9-T10 gear who will have you checking to make sure Righteous Fury is active.

The only chance you'll have to maintain any semblance of control will be to optimise your threat output. That's why it is wise to get 969 down now, so that you'll be using less brain-time worrying about your rotation and have more to devote to watching threat, seeing who is going to need a taunt, etc.
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby firstamendme » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:05 pm

I'm a big fan of hitting excorcism then spamming taunt while it casts. The taunt 'hits' first so you stil get the damage component. Then you toss a shield and afk for the duration.
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:57 am

firstamendme wrote:I'm a big fan of hitting excorcism then spamming taunt while it casts. The taunt 'hits' first so you stil get the damage component. Then you toss a shield and afk for the duration.

Neither HoR nor Exorcism have a missile, thus hitting the target as soon as the cast lands. How can you land HoR before Exo if you cast Exo before HoR?
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby firstamendme » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:06 am

Try it sometime. If you spam HoR while Exo is casting, it registers the hit of HoR first if you get the timing right.
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Re: Mandatory 969?

Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:24 pm

There is no timing to "get right". You send the server a "start exo", you send the server a "finishing exo" and then you send a "starting HoR and finishing HoR".
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