New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Erendis » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:10 am

Don't tell anyone that you're inexperianced. To reasonable people it makes sense to let people know so if you do mess up they know it's b/c you are learning and not b/c you are bad. It's a shame that most people you meet in PuGs are not reasonable. This same thing happened to my friend on his warrior.

Th big thing to realize while leveling is that health is the most important tanking stat for leveling instances. This isn't to say go overboard and get all "of stamina" gear. But if it's plate and is a tanking piece then grab it. Slap on some cheap leather working patches and some cheap green quality gems from northrend and you're good to go.

My biggest advice for learning to tank is to start as early as you can. I advise starting at level 16 in Deadmines. There are many similarities in every instance and the sooner you learn the commonalities the sooner you can start to think on your feet and simply react to new instances and new bosses.

Good luck. Tanking is the highest pressure role in WoW but also the most fulfiling.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Barfolamhew » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:05 am

Ok so I have tanked most of the under 80 5 man's, and I believe that I am a decently geared and decently experienced tank. The problem I am having now is keeping agro in groups that I get in under the new lfg system. Anyone have any suggestions to help out. I am trying to follow the advice for rotations here for best threat and I am keeping consecrate up cause that seems the only way to keep threat up on multiple mobs with dps not staying on my single target. Help! or is it just stupid dps and I should let them die before they listen.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Arcand » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:57 am

The DPS role attracts, among others, some immature and undisciplined people who will make you feel like you're babysitting a bunch of bratty kids you're not allowed to spank.

Sadly, your only options are to grit your teeth and deal with it, or join the ranks of tanks who refuse to PuG.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby maaya » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:25 am

I've actually done Ramparts in a group of 2*Ret+1*Blood DK+1*Holy Priest. We did fine without a tank. I've also done Slave Pens and Underbog with 3*Ret+1*Warlock+1*Hunter, one of the Ret mainly heals. We also did fine. So no, with two or three plate in the group, you can reasonably do these instances.

Now for keeping threat, this is what I do when I tank leveling instances now with my yet another paladin. With the exception of being mana starved at level 70, I'm having very good results since I got Divine Plea. (I've also tanked with my main paladin everything up to Ulduar10 clear.)

(I can't check your armory now, it says under maintenance.)

1. Spec for Improved Hammer of Justice. Divine Sacrifice has no use before 80.
2. Glyph Hammer of the Righteous instead of Divine Plea. You don't need that 3% before 80.
3. Ignore rotations. Trash packs need high front-load threat. Use 969 only on single targets. (Although admittedly sometimes I slip into 969 even on large trash packs. Since I keep threat on the whole pack anyway, my fingers just do the dance themselves.)
4. Try to manage Avenger Shield cooldown so you always have it up for packs (3+ mobs). That means don't use it on absolutely every pull. Two-mob pulls can be done by HoRec on MobA, HotR on MobB as you move to B (A should be in range for HotR to hit as well by now), then Judge MobB and ShoR on MobA. You should have solid threat now.
5. For packs, pull with AS -> change target to one that AS didn't hit as you're running to it.
6. HotR as soon as you can, while you position yourself -> change target to another that HotR didn't hit, or just TAB.
7. ShoR (or before 75, just Judge).
8. If full on mana, Consecration.
9. HoJ on one of the mobs. You should manage the cooldown to have it up on each large pack.
10. Hit whatever skill comes off cooldown.

The key is to keep dishing out threat while you do your positioning. That first few seconds should never be wasted. Remember, when you have aggro, melee mobs will come to you. You don't need to move around collecting them. Choose a destination where you want to tank them, use AS, HotR, Judge to establish aggro on every mob while you're running straight for that destination, and by the time you get there, you should have the mobs in a nice arc around you already. Let them come to you (unless you lost aggro). The faster you do this, the more patient DPS will become, because they know you'll soon get the mob together nicely for their impressive AOE numbers.

I'm 0/53/10 at level 72, and will be getting Seal of Command at level 73 to be used for all trash packs. I hear it's delicious.

HoJ should be saved for interrupts if you know some mob has a dangerous skill. Else just use it for some good damage reduction on caster mobs as well as aggro control. A stunned mob is one that's not chewing on your DPS.

And I always change targets to build my white swing on the mob with lowest threat. I also have a hotkey for assist (set to Ctrl-A) and sometimes I assist the melee DPS. :roll:
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Tetsuo » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:52 am

Can't check armory at work (maintankadin is one of the few sites i can read at work, forutnately it's one fo the few sites i actually read :wink: )

I've found that pug players tend to not want to assist on your target. They'd rather have one mob all to themselves so that they can put out full rotations and stroke their throbbing epeen at the end of the run when they're at the top of the dps meters.

Anyway, the best way you'll deal with this is using an effective pull to get that aggro lead.
Techniques for pulls come with time and experience but pay attention to the pulling tips Maaya mentioned above as they are valuable.

Packs of 3 mobs you should cope fine with. Avengers shield in, drop a consecrate and hit Hammer of the Righteous when they're in range and take it from there.

Packs of 4 or more is where you'll have to think a little more about how you want to play it.
For a very basic example, if there's a pack of 5 mobs, target the one on the left and throw your shield in, that will hit the two mobs next to it. you now have 2 mobs on the right running in that you have no threat on. so switch to the mob on the far right immediately and hit it with a HotR and it should jump left and catch the other one. consecrate and take it away.

Because you're nearly always going to get pug dps picking the target they want to hit you can't just rely on Consecrate and Holy Shield procs to keep the aggro for you. You need to actively keep switching targets during the fight. once you've got the pull down and are toe to toe with the mobs just use one ability on each as you tab through them (ShoR on current target>tab>judgment on that target>tab>HotR that target>tab>etc). Not only are you hitting them with your ablities you'll also be white hitting them and stacking SoV stacks on each of them (if you're using SoV of course. SoCommand is really nice for trash but I don't use it as i'm not having threat issues). Another benefit of tab targetting through the pack is that you can take a quick glance at omen and see if someone is pushing threat on each target and build additional threat as necessary.

It might seem difficult at first but you will soon get used to it and dealing with trash pulls will be second nature to you with practise.

Once you're comfortable with pulls you'll probably find that you're the aggressor now and are pulling the next packs a lot quicker and the dps are having to catch up or are less impatient and things will be a little easier for you.

Good Luck and enjoy :D
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Barfolamhew » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:06 am

Thank you that's great advice. I haven't been using SoV I have been using SoW to keep mana topped off, but I may switch. Does threat grow with levels? meaning that once i hit 80 will I have more threat than at 78.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby kenshin648 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:00 am

SoV is the tanking seal of choice. Your threat does slightly increase with level since your strength increases slightly, but I dont think it would increase that much. You shouldnt have mana problems since you talented guarded by the light.

Once you hit 80 maybe your guild can help you get geared up.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Vadis » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:51 am

SoV for just about everything.

I use a mod called TargetCharms that makes it very easy/fast to mark targets. In a pug, whatever I'm focusing on get s a skull. I also have my party's targets showing to see who's not paying attention. If it's clear that one of the DPSr's doesn't know what the skull means, I say "/p kill skull first, please."

If they still can't figure it out and it's a taunt fest, I say, "/p if you agro it, you tank it". You'd be surprised how effective this is when the healer is on board and lets them die.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Barfolamhew » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:39 am

thank you, I have been getting into better groups and doing better as well. I can't hold agro oh H HoR but have done fine in everything else. Is there a good place to go to read up on tanking 5 mans?
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Aedh » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:34 am

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:Whatever happened to Quebec seceding? If they do that, can we invade? America could really use the revenue from exporting syrup and hockey players.
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