New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

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New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Barfolamhew » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:07 pm

Here is your first dumb question but something that seems to be killing me. I am invited into a group for a regular Instance IE. Blood Furnace and get kicked right away because I am new to Tanking. How exactly do you get better and learn if you don't get chances to run with more experienced players? This also comes up when people are checking gear. Run more instances get better gear right?
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Arcand » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:29 pm

If you got insta-kicked without them even giving you a chance, I'm thinking one of two things.

* You had some bad luck and found a group of dicks, which happens sometimes, or

* Your gear is weak enough that it's alarming even to reasonable people.

Would you mind putting up an armory link so we can rule out the second thing? Or at least describe your tank gear in general terms (crafted by your 80 armorsmith, bought greens in the AH, wearing your healing mail?).


Also, if you're really really new, it doesn't hurt to run some lowbie instances while you're learning. Take a group through Scarlet Monastery or whatever, just to get used to hitting the right keys and getting everything stuck onto you. Graduate to Zul'Farrak or Blackrock Depths, and then go for something level-appropriate once you have your moves down a little bit.

That way you're learning in a low-stress environment, you're building some confidence by clearing (admittedly easy) stuff, and you're a hero to some lowbies who might one day remember you. (It happens. I've done heroics with guys who whispered me to say that I probably don't remember but I ran them through an instance once fifty levels ago.)

Also...if you're getting upgrades to your gear in those lowbie instances, that's a danger sign. ;)
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Barfolamhew » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:53 am

Below is my Armory link. Let me know if I'm on the right track of if I need to work on anything. I am tinkering with my talents right now, so if you see any outstanding errors let me know.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby hoho » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:21 am

During leveling I would be happy to get any bear or plate wearer in group who is willing to tank, it's awfully common to see groups of 2 paladins and 2 dk's looking for tank for some random L65-75 5-man.

normal 5-mans can be duoed by most tankish classes, being inexperienced doesn't matter. The people who kicked you are clueless.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Arcand » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:23 am

hoho wrote:During leveling I would be happy to get any bear or plate wearer in group who is willing to tank, it's awfully common to see groups of 2 paladins and 2 dk's looking for tank for some random L65-75 5-man.


This.

Except they're usually looking for a healer too, because so goddamn many warriors/paladins/death knights refuse to do anything but DPS. :)
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Arcand » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:30 am

I've got no problem with your talents, and your gear - well, it's low level but you haven't chosen bad pieces or anything. You just need more of it.

+10 stamina armor kits aren't too expensive; grab some of those and slap them on everywhere they'll go.

One major thing: I think most people check your gear top to bottom, left to right. So the first thing they see is your helm.

It's a DPS helm. Okay, fair enough, might be the best one you have.
But it's got three gem sockets, and they're empty.
That's strike one. It makes you look lazy.

Thrash out some money, get three good gems for that thing. I'd probably go Enduring, the best you can afford. Wrath gems will make a noticeable difference to your stats, and also to the first impression people get when they inspect you.

Watch the AH for Champion pieces, they're everything you want. Most people put those up for crazy obnoxious prices, but now and then you'll find a reasonable one.

Probably the worst thing you're wearing is that ring of regeneration. Crazy good in AD&D, not so good in WoW. If you can find anything of the champion, beast, bear, even eagle or physician, that would be a step up. (Or a straight-up ring of Defense, even.)
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Arcand » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:42 am

Also.

Run Ramparts. People will be happy to see you there because you're a little overlevel for it. Learn the pulls. Learn how to not get destroyed by patrols adding in. Learn how to pull the last big room neatly. Get sharp at marking targets. Not everything you contribute to your group is about blocking hits with your face. :)

Slaughter the place without mercy until the first boss drops that chestplate, and the last boss drops the boots. The chestplate doesn't have any tank stats on it except stamina, but it has sockets.

Guess what, any plate can be tank plate if you stuff enough Enduring gems into it.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby amh » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:49 am

Don't forget the belt! It has the power... to move you.

(Also the cloak and the ring (get two of those)).

All the stuff from the early BC instances is ridiculously overpowered now that you can slap Northrend-gems in them. I've been wearing several pieces into the mid-70s on several characters.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Barfolamhew » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:59 pm

Thanks, I got Gems ( I just got the piece yesterday so didn't have the time to gem it) and I plan on running instances till I am geared or to high :D
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Koatanga » Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:20 pm

As stupid as it is, people equate health to tank capability. You are better off at that level not worrying so much about defense, and stacking a bit of health.

When you join the group the first thing they see is your health pool. If you then say you are not that experienced, they see low health + lack of experience = bad tank.

These instances were not designed for max-level tanks geared for uncritability etc. They are made for levelling tanks who have a mix of dungeon and quest gear. Bosses don't hit very hard, so if you cop a crit it's really not going to matter much.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Barfolamhew » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:23 am

Koatanga wrote:As stupid as it is, people equate health to tank capability. You are better off at that level not worrying so much about defense, and stacking a bit of health.


I didn't think of that. All I have been worrying about was getting enough Def/Dodge/Parry/Block, so that I could avoid as much as possible. That doesn't show up though when your inspecting someone. So do you really think I should gem more on Stam instead of avoidance?
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby theckhd » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:23 am

Koatanga wrote:As stupid as it is, people equate health to tank capability. You are better off at that level not worrying so much about defense, and stacking a bit of health.

There's actually a reason for this, though it's not a good one. A tank with a higher HP pool generally gives the healer more time to react, whereas a tank with lower health but high avoidance tends to see long avoidance streaks and then take larger spike damage (because the spike size might be the same, but he has less overall health).

In other words, a high-HP tank can sometimes mask (or compensate for) a bad or slow healer. So next time you see a healer asking for a tank with 40k health for heroics, just feel confident knowing he's only doing that because he's not a very good healer in the first place, even though he probably doesn't know that himself.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:13 pm

Barfolamhew wrote:Here is your first dumb question but something that seems to be killing me. I am invited into a group for a regular Instance IE. Blood Furnace and get kicked right away because I am new to Tanking. How exactly do you get better and learn if you don't get chances to run with more experienced players? This also comes up when people are checking gear. Run more instances get better gear right?


Pugs generally want you to learn and gear up on your own time, not theirs, which is why people putting pugs together generally want you to have either achievements or gear already. They're not putting the pug together to get /you/ loot or to teach you the instance, after all.

That being said, there's nothing stopping you from forming your own groups and leading your own raids. You'll be a better tank for it.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Barfolamhew » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:12 am

Pugs generally want you to learn and gear up on your own time, not theirs, which is why people putting pugs together generally want you to have either achievements or gear already. They're not putting the pug together to get /you/ loot or to teach you the instance, after all.

That being said, there's nothing stopping you from forming your own groups and leading your own raids. You'll be a better tank for it.


I wasn't looking for a grp to help me out what I was talking about was someone looking for a tank getting invited then getting kicked based on being new to tanking.

Based on my gear should I still look to Gem for Stam.? I know that at 70 as BS I have colbalt gear that has built in def rating. Let me know what you think.
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Re: New to tanking, kicked for inexperience?

Postby Vrimmel » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:35 am

If you are grouping with people you don't know well, just don't say anything about your weaknesses or lie if you have to. Many of the players you will meet while leveling will be in the same situation as you. And often by the time they find out that you are inexperienced, you will already have gained valuable experience for the place.
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