Down to 96.06% and worried...

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Down to 96.06% and worried...

Postby CalculatorSWC » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:09 pm

First thing, I still use this macro to double check:

/script dr=function(x)return 1/(1/16+0.9560/x)end;DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Need 102.4 combat table coverage. Currently at: "..string.format("%.2f", GetDodgeChance()+GetBlockChance()+GetParryChance()+5+dr(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/122.962)))

Second thing, I'm scared... :(

I just switched from 2pc 8.5 & 2pc T9 (basic) to 4pc T9 (basic), and am using my Stamina trinkets, one of which is still the Essence of the Gossamer.

My Block is at an all time low of 12.63%

I don't know what to do :(

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... Calculator
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Re: Down to 96.06% and worried...

Postby Corpsicle » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:31 pm

For necks, do you have access to the 25 man quest reward Malygos neck? Still a nice piece and with a 30 stam gem, it will have higher hp than the current one you use. You trade hit for block rating and strength iirc.

For gems, swap out your expertise stam gems for either dodge stam or agility stam gems. Swap out hit stam gems for defense stam gems.

For enchants, swap armsman to gloves for agility to gloves and armor to cloak for either defense to cloak or agility to cloak.

Other than that, there isn't much you can do with out replacing gear for lower quality pieces. Honestly, you could make none of these changes and be just fine. Raid buffs (depending on what is available in your group make up) usually add 3 to 4%. And for the tier 9 content, not blocking a couple hits per fight won't get you dead, possible exception heroic mode Anub Arak but in that case, you'd be swapping over to a passively unhittable set which is another topic alltogether. I think I sit at 14% block rating but I'm not tanking anything which can eat through holy shield these days so that 14% is more like 44%. I haven't noticed a drop in survivability at all as my block rating steadily goes down (in fact, I've noticed an increase in survivability as I get upgrades, which is to be expected) and I suspect that as long as my dodge/defense/parry kept going up along with my hit points, I would be just fine with absolutely 0% block rating over the base value available at level 80.
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Re: Down to 96.06% and worried...

Postby CalculatorSWC » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:43 pm

Corpsicle wrote:For necks, do you have access to the 25 man quest reward Malygos neck? Still a nice piece and with a 30 stam gem, it will have higher hp than the current one you use. You trade hit for block rating and strength iirc.

For gems, swap out your expertise stam gems for either dodge stam or agility stam gems. Swap out hit stam gems for defense stam gems.

For enchants, swap armsman to gloves for agility to gloves and armor to cloak for either defense to cloak or agility to cloak.

Other than that, there isn't much you can do with out replacing gear for lower quality pieces. Honestly, you could make none of these changes and be just fine. Raid buffs (depending on what is available in your group make up) usually add 3 to 4%. And for the tier 9 content, not blocking a couple hits per fight won't get you dead, possible exception heroic mode Anub Arak but in that case, you'd be swapping over to a passively unhittable set which is another topic alltogether. I think I sit at 14% block rating but I'm not tanking anything which can eat through holy shield these days so that 14% is more like 44%. I haven't noticed a drop in survivability at all as my block rating steadily goes down (in fact, I've noticed an increase in survivability as I get upgrades, which is to be expected) and I suspect that as long as my dodge/defense/parry kept going up along with my hit points, I would be just fine with absolutely 0% block rating over the base value available at level 80.



Negative to having the 25man Maly reward neck. Also not feeling that I'm in the position to be removing +hit from my gear. Solo unbuffed I only rock 6.92% (I do use the Taunt Glyph), but even still 7% isn't capped. I'm a-ok when I have a Moonkin and/or Shadow Priest, but for 10man's I might not always be lucky enough to have them around. Even still I could remove the one Hit/STA gem I have and trade it for a Def/Sta.

I can't get rid of the Expertise/STA gem for a preferred Dodge/STA gem, simply because at this moment, that extra +10 Expertise from the gem is keeping me above the 6% I want to maintain.

Just grabbed that cloak last night, went with Armor rather than +Def to make up for the lose in armor I suffered by removing my Cloak of the Shadowed Sun. I will still change that enchant tho.

Not comfortable doing anything that is going to reduce my threat, i.e removing armsman for agility. Until Anoob 10 or Hodir Hard 10 or XT Hard 25 provides me with a weapon, TPS is a valid concern.

Either way thanks for the things to consider. I'm not too worried about my survivability per say, but here I was the other day tanking Anoob: Miss, Miss, Dodge, Parry, Dodge, Full Hit... I didn't like seeing that, anyhow... back to the game.
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Re: Down to 96.06% and worried...

Postby Spectrum » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:06 pm

It sounds like you're too scared to lose your EH and your hit/expertise. Tanking gear is a balance. You want to balance threat with EH with avoidance, and even switch out depending on the fight.

Personally, I don't think hit cap or expertise cap are that good. Perhaps if you some stellar DPS, but even then most classes have a threat dump and you have Hand of Salv (or BoP to annoy those physical classes that get to close).

I also don't think that being block capped is a huge deal. If you're at 96% raid buffed then you're only down 6.5%. That really isn't too bad and would be unlikely to be the difference between survival and a wipe. If you're not counting raid buffs, then double check after you have all your buffs up (kings, Motw, HoW).

There's also consumables. I can't remember the names, but you can get both the +defense elixir and +agil/stam food.
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Re: Down to 96.06% and worried...

Postby Corpsicle » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:28 pm

If threat is a concern, I think you'd be better off going with the strength/stamina food. We scale so well with strength. And on the topic of consumables, you can also prop up hit rating with the hit/stamina food - which has the added bonus of being seriously easy to farm. You can get worg meat (2x worg meat + spice) or you can get the snapper that is a throwaway catch from pools and random water all across northrend (3x fish + spice).

Personally, I have 2 'sets' I use via outfitter, and random pieces/trinkets I use depending on the type of fight. For normal progression tanking, I use my main tank set which maximizes health and avoidance over block rating/value, hit, expertise (although expertise is remarkbly easy to get on gear, along with glyphed seal of corruption). For easy mode laughs, I use a block value set that gets as high as possible on strength and block value. Threat fights I use a combo of both - generally I swap in a hit trinket (10 man fl one) for a brewmaiden trinket, block value belt for avoidance belt, and then sort out having the rings/necks/etc with highest strength possible. I also swap a weapon with Mongoose/Blood Draining on it for a weapon with Accuracy on it. Going that route, I've never had an issue on threat on Hodir 10 man, even versus our crazy casters (mage, lock, and shadow priest) on really short 2 minute long, all the buffs aligning right fights.

I'd consider most anything in ToC 10 a normal progression fight, while I'd consider fights like Hodir 10 or Malygos to be a threat fight. Vezax would be in between, since I'd also have to balance avoiding as much damage as possible for our healers benefit.

I don't really like the armsman enchant as a threat option, though if you are really pressed on threat it can help. As an experiment to see what you are really losing by moving to a stamina, armor, or agility enchant, next time you tank a threat sensitive fight see what your total threat is at 15 seconds into the fight, 1 minute into the fight, and then again at the end of the fight. Be sure to note what the total threat held by the second person on threat is at each marker. Multiply your threat numbers by 98% - that is your threat minues 2% and is how much you would have had at each marker with out the armsman enchant, all else being equal. Then, the key question becomes: Would you have been able to hold threat with that amount versus the second on the threat list? If the answer is yes, then armsman's threat is wasted and you are able to consider different options with out worrying about the potential threat loss.
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Re: Down to 96.06% and worried...

Postby Koatanga » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:32 pm

First, transfer servers :P (I used to be on SWC)

Second, you might want to look at situational sets. Dual stam trinkets basically says "I'm going to get hit, so I might as well give my healers a larger buffer". It's suitable for progression raiding and cases where the damage is unavoidable.

If you are worried about getting hit (i.e. the damage is avoidable), then just run a single stam trinket and use the other slot for a defensive one.

I do think you can lose the 10 hit for some more defense. You are running the taunt trinket, so keeping the nasties off the clothies is covered. All you are using hit for after that is threat. Your threat should be fine with the hit rating you have. I have only around 89 hit rating currently, which is embarrassing but still not bad enough to threat-cap my DPS.
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Re: Down to 96.06% and worried...

Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:05 am

Fact: 102.4% is pretty useless in current content. Unless you tank Anub 25 hard mode adds.
Don't worry about it.

Block % itself is also quite useless, considering you should have around 55% from miss+parry+dodge even if like me you only have stamina everywhere, combined with 10-15% base block you are at 70%, 30% holy shield block you are already at 100%, raid buffs will block cap you.
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Re: Down to 96.06% and worried...

Postby bashef » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:32 am

What Worldie said - block is a spectacularly disappointing stat at the moment. Maintaining 102.4% is irrelevant given block value in a standard MT set compared to boss hit size. Making your block value significant enough that blocking a hit constituted a sizable reduction in damage taken would be irresponsible because it would damage your effective health and to a lesser extent avoidance, which would drastically increase the chances of your death on all those unblockable (and unavoidable) attacks that cause 95%+ of your deaths.

Don't gem expertise, ever - it's a weak stat that sits in a a red socket. If you really really need threat (and unless you're undergeared wrt your dps you shouldn't) use strength in that socket. Otherwise dodge, or preferably agility. Yellow sockets you can use hit, but I'd only do it as a last resort if you were desperate for threat and you were using every trick in the book to get more (tricks/md, judicious use of wings and hand of salv). This is assuming it's even worth matching socket bonuses (I've given up matching anything less than 9 stam to just stuff more stamina in everything).

Fact: the only tanking stats that matter in current content are stamina and in some cases armour. It sucks, it makes tank gearing rather one-dimensional, but there you go.
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Re: Down to 96.06% and worried...

Postby Ragingsoul » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:34 pm

I don't know why you guys think block isn't good, when it didn't change from Ulduar at all.

Gormok the Impaler #1 melee swing hits Ragingsoul for 16012 Physical. (2278 Blocked)
on heroic 25..

12.4% mitigation, which has always been about what block was mitigated in Ulduar. True, some of the dmg now can't be blocked, but it doesn't mean it's completely useless not to block, it's still more than 10% of the total hit.
The same way XT-002's aoe can't be blocked, does that mean it was useless? not to me.

Sure we can't really do anything about it now, since there isn't any piece of gear with block rating on it, but blocking a hit is still nice, in a mitigation point of view.

Now, you shouldn't try to stay block caped and reduce your EH in the process, because of the other source of dmg:
Gormok the Impaler #1 Impale hits Ragingsoul for 27474 Physical.
That ofc you can't block, and you will need some a good hp pool to survive 30k impale + 15k hit + 5k dot, all that in less than 2 sec.
While tanking new content, one rule is important -- it's not about taking less damage; it's about being able to take more.
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