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Extra defense or agility

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Extra defense or agility

Postby vonrychte » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:48 am

K so if you wouldn't mind, help me understand.... when I'm going to gem some red slots for additional avoidance (like with a shifting dreadstone, +10 agility +15 stamina) whether I should choose an agility gem or a defense gem if I'm already at 540. I'm still a new 80 tank and getting my gear together but I like the idea of keeping some balance in ratio with avoidance and stamina is why I ask.

However, I keep reading how well defense over 540 is still a great benefit to avoidance yet in practice I seem to see it more common for people to stop adding defense and either using some agility in gems or sometimes dodge. Why? When does the diminishing returns on defense kick in to make agility a better choice?

I know there's a small amount of threat gained with agility so is that it?
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Re: Extra defense or agility

Postby Epimer » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:21 am

Three threads below yours (at the time of writing) - discussion on why.
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Re: Extra defense or agility

Postby Anorian » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:35 am

Well for starters defence is a yellow slot so you wont be putting def gems in those red slots.

As far as gemming goes for new tanks i'd say try to gem to the slots as in:

blue : stam
red: dodge/agi & stam
yellow: def/stam

this way you get a better avoidance/stamina balance and you get all the socketbonuses as well while getting your meta requirement at the same time.
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Re: Extra defense or agility

Postby vonrychte » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:41 am

Regarding the other discussion on agility, yes I've been following that one and found it very interesting. Maybe I should have posted in that thread instead but it's a great case in point to my question, it seems like all the discussion is around whether to gem agility or gem dodge (or sometimes parry). The question I'm asking is whether to gem agility or keep adding defense. So yes, I'm sure I'm missing something is why I'm asking lol.

But yeah Anorian, the yellow slot vs the red is the simple thing that I was missing. Am good at that. But let me re-phrase this a bit then to still get a little more clarification. Let's say I'm trying to shift the balance in my gear to a greater ratio of avoidance to stamina. Should I add more agility or defense in that case?
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Re: Extra defense or agility

Postby baneoftruth » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:30 am

Well...I'm not sure if this helps, but agility offers 85% of the avoidance per point that dodge does. If you can find the math of dodge vs agility and adjust the dodge numbers to be 85% of their value, then you might have your answer.

This honestly looks like a job for Theck, who I'm sure could calculate the answer to this in his head.

Also...I'm not sure if the spreadsheet is current, but I know that there was a DR/avoidance spreadsheet developed here. You can check that out, maybe you can plug in all your numbers there?

Last edit, I think...according to the sticky:
Defense beats dodge, dodge beats parry.
So I'd think that that meant that: Defense>Dodge>Parry>Agility (parry and agi might be switched, but the point still stands...)
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Re: Extra defense or agility

Postby vonrychte » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:39 pm

Thanks for the links and your help Bane. Good to review Knaughty's guide and the defense or dodge page helps reinforce that defense is the way to go. I get the idea that I'm worrying over minutia and probably should even be thinking block more since I'm only just getting started on heroics but am trying to prep a little beyond that too. I'll keep tweaking as I get a better feel for things but I like the theory of a relatively high avoidance ratio to stamina build. To this end, I'll probably do a bit more with Enduring Eye of Zul in my yellow slots to push beyond 540 and see how it goes.
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Re: Extra defense or agility

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:36 pm

It depends. Extra defense is great past 540 until you are block capped, at which point it's less wonderful, and you'd be better off with either dodge (if you want just pure avoidance), or agil (if you prefer a more nuanced approach).

Defense past 540 while not blockcapped is the best way to get there, but past it, the itemized BR is generally wasted.
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Re: Extra defense or agility

Postby vonrychte » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:31 pm

thanks Fuzzy, will watch for that
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Re: Extra defense or agility

Postby Awyndel » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:42 am

past the block cap defence is still the best avoidance rating...

You can't just chose agility or defence, you decide per socket bonus/enchant slot what is best for your situation.
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