Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

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Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby Victorfrogg » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:37 am

Hi, this is kind of a noob question, but I couldn't find a post that actually tells me this information, so, here goes.

I am new to paladin tanking, and my guildie (who is also new to it) asked me if we needed the glyph for Righteous Defense. Apparently it has a miss chance of 9%. As such, I have two questions. 1) Does melee hit chance affect the hit chance of this taunt? 2)If so, is it viable to stack 9% hit chance and get a different glyph? Or am I better off using the Righteous Defense glyph?

Thanks in advance. ^.^
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby baneoftruth » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:34 am

Actually, taunts are still based on the spell hit table, giving them a base 17% chance to miss.

Hit rating is hit rating now. The only difference between melee hit and spell hit is that you get a little more spell hit per point of hit rating (I guess that's to make up for the higher percentage).

Bottom line...stacking hit rating is important, but mostly for threat purposes. Yes, the more hit you have, the greater chance you have of a successful taunt, but it would not be viable to stack 17% hit to prevent resisted taunts. If you are very concerned about missed taunts, then glyphing for Righteous Defense is really your only option. However, we do have two taunts off of the GCD, and if all else fails there's always Hand of Protection (unless you're doing a tank rotation, then HoP = BAD! lol).

Found another thread on this here and some interesting info here

TBH, I'm running with ~8.5% spell hit right now, no RD glyph, and I haven't run into a situation yet where a missed taunt caused a wipe or tank death.
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby Candiru » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:46 am

tbh at the moment we can press HoR, RD at the same time, and get two chances to taunt the boss. If the HoR goes through, the RD won't activate since now you are the target.

The only time you can't do this is on a 4Horseman style fight, where I think glyphing for taunt resist might be a good idea.

As long as we have 2 chances to taunt, its quite unlikley for both taunts to be resisted. (Assuming 3% hit debuff, and a small amount of hit on gear)
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby baneoftruth » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:54 am

Candiru wrote:tbh at the moment we can press HoR, RD at the same time, and get two chances to taunt the boss. If the HoR goes through, the RD won't activate since now you are the target.

The only time you can't do this is on a 4Horseman style fight, where I think glyphing for taunt resist might be a good idea.

As long as we have 2 chances to taunt, its quite unlikley for both taunts to be resisted. (Assuming 3% hit debuff, and a small amount of hit on gear)

Actually, 4 horsemen is a little forgiving in terms of the taunts...you can survive one extra stack. Now, Thorim hard mode, on the other hand, is very good at ker-splatting debuffed tanks, so a missed taunt there can be quite dangerous.

Regardless...Candiru is right, you technically could use both taunts at once, but you *need* to make that a manual process. There are situations where RD will cause problems if you choose to use it. Case and point: you are tanking adds on Sartharion, one gets on the main tank, you hit RD on that add and suddenly the raid eats a breath. Of course...this is also a fun way to test your other tank's reaction time :lol:

I also forgot about the hit debuff from your neighborhood shadow priest.
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby Arcand » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:34 am

baneoftruth wrote:I also forgot about the hit debuff from your neighborhood shadow priest.


And the hit buff from your neighborhood draenei. :D
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby baneoftruth » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:36 am

Arcand wrote:
baneoftruth wrote:I also forgot about the hit debuff from your neighborhood shadow priest.


And the hit buff from your neighborhood draenei. :D

I r horde. We don't get racials that provide an unbalanced raid buff ;-)
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby Gamingdevil » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:56 am

baneoftruth wrote:
Arcand wrote:
baneoftruth wrote:I also forgot about the hit debuff from your neighborhood shadow priest.


And the hit buff from your neighborhood draenei. :D

I r horde. We don't get racials that provide an unbalanced party buff ;-)


Fixed it for you, even though it's good, it can be annoying to put one in each group.
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby Arcand » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:07 pm

baneoftruth wrote:
Arcand wrote:
baneoftruth wrote:I also forgot about the hit debuff from your neighborhood shadow priest.


And the hit buff from your neighborhood draenei. :D

I r horde. We don't get racials that provide an unbalanced raid buff ;-)


Bah. The nerf hammer is coming for your unkillable regenerating trolls. :)
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby baneoftruth » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:57 pm

Arcand wrote:Bah. The nerf hammer is coming for your unkillable regenerating trolls. :)

I'd trade you troll regen for squidgoat hit aura any day. Then again, we have like 2 trolls in my guild and I only PvE.
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby Victorfrogg » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:46 pm

Thanks for all the information guys. :)
I'll just macro the taunts together then. :D
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby Epimer » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:07 am

That's really not a very good idea, for reasons already mentioned in this thread.
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby hoho » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:11 am

I'm at only around 5% hit atm but I think I'll too swap the RD glyph to something more useful (hammer for 5-man pwnage? :-P). Doing totc10hc together with guild MT warrior yesterday had him miss taunts very often while I had none, using RD after the other one would work perfectly fine considering he can tank pretty much anything with his often-missing ones.
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby baneoftruth » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:33 am

Victorfrogg wrote:Thanks for all the information guys. :)
I'll just macro the taunts together then. :D

No no no no no...

baneoftruth wrote:Regardless...Candiru is right, you technically could use both taunts at once, but you *need* to make that a manual process. There are situations where RD will cause problems if you choose to use it. Case and point: you are tanking adds on Sartharion, one gets on the main tank, you hit RD on that add and suddenly the raid eats a breath. Of course...this is also a fun way to test your other tank's reaction time :lol:


If you really want to macro them together...set it up in a cast sequence macro with a short reset timer. I still don't really advise towards that, as accidental double-clicks could cause problems...as noted above.
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby Victorfrogg » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:56 pm

thats what i meant. XD
Castsequence macros combined with an obscure keybinding so as not to trigger by accident. :) (though not so obscure that i'll forget where it is)
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Re: Taunt miss chance, is the glyph really needed?

Postby Koatanga » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:50 pm

The way I look at it, I have two jobs:

1: Get aggro.
2: Keep aggro.

Everything else, like avoidance, effective health, and threat production is a part of #2.

I have taken a beating on hit rating with the ToC gear, so I have gone to the taunt glyph to make sure I have #1 covered. I do this because the DPS or healer who gets nerfed if I miss the taunt really doesn't care about my TPS at that moment.

The RL doesn't want to hear the "taunt failed" excuse - he just wants the thing tanked.
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