Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:27 pm

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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby culhag » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:41 am

theckhd wrote:Article posted. Direct link:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... tack-table

The link gets me a 404 error.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:55 am

Arg, so does going through Guides -> Advanced Training -> Attack Table.

It was working fine yesterday when I posted it. I'll hit up Aergis to see what happened and fix it.

<edit> Should be fixed now.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Arcand » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:26 pm

Works for me now, but I didn't try it before so my feedback isn't especially valuable.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:19 am

Arcand: This can probably be de-stickified to clean up the forum a bit if you like. It's now posted in the "guides" section, and I have a link back to this thread from the guide for comments and suggestions.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Arcand » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:49 am

Thanks - I'll consider that if I worry that we're getting too cluttered in here, but for the moment I think this post remains a good use of space. :)

I'm not a big fan of the new site interface, so if you disagree with me it's probably because you've made friends with the interface better than I have.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:17 am

Someone dug up an old EJ post by Chicken where he tested what type of attack each of our abilities counted as. They line up exactly with the classifications I gave them in the article. I've added the link to the references section.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby lythac » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:42 am

As you will probably see in your TPS thread something has happened to ShoR and can now be dodged/parried. Shows a parry here - Edge's WMO parse.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:24 am

Yup, it's also proccing seals now. Seems they changed it to a melee attack this patch.

I'll be updating once we have an idea whether this is a bug or whether this is an intended change.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:42 am

Updated to reflect the change to ShoR, and included a link to the testing that shows taunts are based on spell hit rating and miss chances.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:38 pm

How can you calculate if you are block capped/unhittable? Back in the BC days, I used a macro to test for the 102.4%, but I guess it is dated now I am level 80 and I can't get the new one from the macros sub-forum to work, viz:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5 + 1/(0.0625 + 0.956/(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/4.91850*0.04))))

How does one compute this manually? I get that it tests whether total avoidance is 102.4%. I can see % chances for dodge, parry and block stats in the in-game character sheet under defences. Do I add these up? Then add 30% for block under Holy Shield? What about miss - is that just 5%? When I do all this, I get a number that seems too small (although maybe my gear is just too bad). Do the numbers on the character sheet include the contribution of defence? The macro seems a little more complicated (I am not following what's going on after the +5).

Sorry to ask such a basic question, but block cap and unhittable are mentioned so many times without quite explaining to the uninitiated how to compute it.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby lythac » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:26 pm

Avoidance = Miss from Def + base mob miss chance(5%) + Dodge + Parry
Block = Block + HS (30%)

Then if Avoidance + Block > 102.4% (vs ??) then you are block capped.

To get miss from def you need to use the formula here (tankspot) or refer to a table (the tooltip for miss from def is pre DR).

Code: Select all
Def Pre DR Post DR
540   5.60   4.29
541   5.64   4.31
542   5.68   4.33
543   5.72   4.35
544   5.76   4.38
545   5.80   4.40
546   5.84   4.42
547   5.88   4.44
548   5.92   4.46
549   5.96   4.49
550   6.00   4.51
551   6.04   4.53
552   6.08   4.55
553   6.12   4.57
554   6.16   4.59
555   6.20   4.61
556   6.24   4.64
557   6.28   4.66
558   6.32   4.68
559   6.36   4.70
560   6.40   4.72
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Lumerian » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:06 pm

This was very helpful to me thank you very much for sharing I am only a 63 ret pally now however I will respec to prot at about 75 anyway thanks again
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:46 am

Updated with dodge/parry % for bosses/mobs of different levels.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Arcand » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:39 am

Now I'm starting to think the number of stickies is in the yellow zone.

OP, would you care to...

a) Keep this current for Cata,

b) Dump this post and start a new one for Cata, or

c) Dump this post?
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:23 am

I intend to keep it current for Cataclysm, though it won't take that much of a rewrite. Right now I'm focusing on the MATLAB code, so it will be at least a few weeks before I have time to update it.

If you want to un-sticky it that's fine. I think it's a useful reference document, but it's also linked under the "Guides" menu.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby tobinbereznak » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:10 pm

I modified a version of the Block Cap macro I was using in 3.x to work for 4.0:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5))
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Chicken » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:32 am

tobinbereznak wrote:I modified a version of the Block Cap macro I was using in 3.x to work for 4.0:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5))
You can change the +5 into +20 (Or just add a separate +15) so it'll include Holy Shield as well.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:21 am

Updated for Cataclysm. Let me know if I missed anything.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Aerron » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:23 am

With the changes Blizz has made to the Weapon Skill mechanics, is the following still true?

For each level above 80, the boss gains 5 weapon skill, granting him an additional 0.2% chance to crit and reducing the chance for his target to avoid or block an attack by 0.2%.


Sorry if this is obvious, I'm back to the game after a long absence and relearning everything.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:12 pm

Aside from the obvious typo there (80 should be 85), yes. As far as I know, the attack table still functions exactly the way it did, including the boss reductions on dodge, parry, block, and miss. I haven't seen any empirical evidence to the contrary yet.

While the Defense and Weapon Skill stats have been removed from the game as far as the players are concerned, they probably still exist in the game code in some form. In all likelihood, they just took them out as independent stats and tied them directly to level (i.e. weapon_skill=5*level). Since they were redundant to the player at that point, they got axed from the UI.

However, in the end, whether the weapon skill system still exists or not is irrelevant now that it's tied to level, and probably unnecessary for a beginner's guide like this one. I've taken out any mention of weapon or defense skill in the main section of the article for now. If we find that in later tiers of content they tweak bosses in a way that indicates the weapon skill system is still hiding behind the curtain, I'll just update the guide accordingly.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby æ » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:31 pm

Chicken wrote:
tobinbereznak wrote:I modified a version of the Block Cap macro I was using in 3.x to work for 4.0:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5))
You can change the +5 into +20 (Or just add a separate +15) so it'll include Holy Shield as well.


This isnt taking DR into account is it?

Can someone verify if I did this accurately? Made it real fast and need more eyes lookn.
/run dr=function(x)return 1/(1/65.63144+0.9560/x)end;DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Need 102.4 - Currently at: "..string.format("%.2f", dr(GetDodgeChance())+GetBlockChance()+dr(GetParryChance())+5))
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:52 am

GetDodgeChance() and GetParryChance() already take into account diminishing returns, as do the percentages listed on your character sheet. Your macro would be applying a second round of Diminishing returns to them.
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby æ » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:47 am

theckhd wrote:GetDodgeChance() and GetParryChance() already take into account diminishing returns, as do the percentages listed on your character sheet. Your macro would be applying a second round of Diminishing returns to them.


Really? Right under on the tooltip on both it says "(Before diminishing returns)" after the number it gives.. Urg so misleading!
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Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby lythac » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:23 am

æ wrote:
theckhd wrote:GetDodgeChance() and GetParryChance() already take into account diminishing returns, as do the percentages listed on your character sheet. Your macro would be applying a second round of Diminishing returns to them.


Really? Right under on the tooltip on both it says "(Before diminishing returns)" after the number it gives.. Urg so misleading!


The tooltip shows it before, but the sheet shows your actual values (vs equal level mob). Though think that's what you just realised.
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