[3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

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[3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby Threatco » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:51 pm

Have we reached that point yet? Or did the dodge nerf just close the gap a bit?
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Re: [3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby Wrathy » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:54 am

You start gemming parry for dodge when you have greater than a 1.88:1 ratio of Dodge:Parry. Just divide your dodge rating by your parry rating to get your number, if it is over 1.88, then gem for some parry, if not dodge all the way.
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Re: [3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby Threatco » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:56 am

Just dodge/parry rating from gear right?
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Re: [3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby Wrathy » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:59 am

In you Character screen, hover your mouse over the word dodge and the word parry and it will give you values for rating, not the percentage, but the actual number. Those are the values you want to check for the ratio.
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Re: [3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby majiben » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:45 pm

You're incorrect wrathy because of defense rating and agility. IIRC, if (Dodge% on character sheet - 10%)/(Parry % on character sheet -10%) > 1.88 while buffed, you will want to start looking into parry over dodge.
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Re: [3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:44 pm

Majiben wrote:You're incorrect wrathy because of defense rating and agility. IIRC, if (Dodge% on character sheet - 10%)/(Parry % on character sheet -10%) > 1.88 while buffed, you will want to start looking into parry over dodge.

It depends. At high avoidance levels, the (dodge%-10)/(parry%-10)=1.88 formula works better. At low avoidance levels, just sticking to dodge_rating/parry_rating = 1.88 works nearly as well. Since this is Basic Training, I'd probably lean towards the rating ratio, but I'd be willing to bet that Threatco's geared enough that he should be using the percentage ratio.

Ungodly detail here.
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Xenix's method is clearly the best way to optimize your avoidance. It may be difficult to do in practice though, especially when juggling multiple gear sets.
Two close, simple approximations are:
  • At low gear levels ( defense rating + dodge rating + parry rating < 1150 or so), just ignore defense and stack dodge and parry rating in a 1.88:1 ratio.
  • At higher gear levels (defense + dodge + parry > 1150 rating), gear so that your post-DR dodge and parry percentages come out as close to a 1.88:1 ratio as possible. In other words:
    Code: Select all
    (character_sheet_dodge_% - 10) / (character_sheet_parry_% - 10) = 1.88

    This is also equivalent to the algorithm I posted earlier for ratings:
    Theck wrote:
    1. Take current ratings and subtract out 689 def, 96 dodge, and 64 parry
    2. Figure out your current ratio of dodge:def:parry
    3. if one of these is higher than the ideal ratio of 2.4:1.8:1, swap out some of the rating that's above the target ratio for a rating that's below or at the target value.
    4. Recalculate and lather, rinse, repeat.

    Note that this method may result in some "wasted" defense rating, but will also ensure that you're within about 0.075% avoidance of the best possible value you can have without forcing you to worry about exactly how much defense rating you have.
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Re: [3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby majiben » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:49 pm

The issue I worry about is that the dodge gains from raid buffs, defense and enchants is quite a bit more than what dodge rating is giving. That said, at low levels of avoidance you are far more likely to favor dodge anyways.
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Re: [3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:58 pm

Majiben wrote:The issue I worry about is that the dodge gains from raid buffs, defense and enchants is quite a bit more than what dodge rating is giving. That said, at low levels of avoidance you are far more likely to favor dodge anyways.

I think that calculation is assuming full raid buffs. If it weren't, it'd be wrong, because you get much more dodge than parry from raid buffs (and thus would more heavily favor dodge, and the optimum ratio would go up).

Drat, now I have to go back and check.

<edit> Checked, and it does assume a base 300 agi from raid buffs (which is a little low, actually). But I've changed my mind anyway; I don't think it matters because the analytic expressions asymptotically approach the 1.88 value, as jere showed in that thread. So the simulation should still end converging to the proper value as you increase rating to very large values

The simulation doesn't include the 200 dodge rating libram though (it didn't exist them), so people using the rating formula should remember to include that when they do their calculation.
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Re: [3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby knaughty » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:51 am

I think the real answer is "When you're using gear that's been itemised by Blizzard developers, gem dodge (or agility)"

There is a breakpoint where parry is better, but I'd be surprised if there's an actual gear-set that gets you to it.
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Re: [3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby æ » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:54 am

Majiben wrote:You're incorrect wrathy because of defense rating and agility. IIRC, if (Dodge% on character sheet - 10%)/(Parry % on character sheet -10%) > 1.88 while buffed, you will want to start looking into parry over dodge.



Tankspot has the same advice, but you and they are making it very confusing. Its not -10%. Its just -10! I was scratching my head for several min untill I realized we are simply taking the base dodge/parry out of the formula! Before I was taking 20% dodge, and taking 10% out of that for 18% dodge. :?
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Re: [3.2.2]When to start gemming parry over dodge for avoidance.

Postby Spectrum » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:02 am

æ wrote:
Majiben wrote:You're incorrect wrathy because of defense rating and agility. IIRC, if (Dodge% on character sheet - 10%)/(Parry % on character sheet -10%) > 1.88 while buffed, you will want to start looking into parry over dodge.



Tankspot has the same advice, but you and they are making it very confusing. Its not -10%. Its just -10! I was scratching my head for several min untill I realized we are simply taking the base dodge/parry out of the formula! Before I was taking 20% dodge, and taking 10% out of that for 18% dodge. :?


But it is 10%, because the units match. If we wanted it to be 90% of your dodge percentage we would have said that, or said dodge% * 0.9 or something. Do you not have your advanced degree in mathematics or the physical sciences yet?

Actually, I think you did the smarter thing. It is sort of confusing since we're writing it as a %. If it was 0.20 - 0.10 no one would get confused.
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