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Threat Issues

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Threat Issues

Postby Mathalor » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:16 pm

I ran a heroic trial of the crusader today. The dps kept pulling threat off me. I'm doing a good 969 rotation, and my gear is a mix of htoc and emblem gear, and a few heroic epics/blues. I'm not sure whether its me, or the "ok the pull started, go," dps attitude. I'm hoping there's just some bug, and recasting rf on login might fix my problems.

I'm Eliachim on Blackrock, if you want to armory.

I just got the htoc shoulders today, so they're not enchanted or gemmed.

So I can ask atleast one specific question, how would you start a 969 on the black knight, if you knew the dps were going to charge in on your 1st or 2nd global?
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Aubade » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:36 pm

Hmm, Well one thing about 696 is that it shouldn't be followed to the extreme, It's a good guideline for threat but to quote someone on these boards "A good paladin knows the rules of pally tanking, and a great paladin knows when to break them."

for the most part in ToC I have a set rotation for each pull. in the trash for the first non-mounted boss i'll open on each pack with an avengers shield, then hammer of the righteous as soon as the three of them are in range -> Consecrate -> into 696.

Do that for each trash pack, then just pull the boss with exo->spamtaunt for extreme frontloading threat.

for the Black Knight if you stand in front of him and wait for him to say his last line, if you pop Divine Plea and then holy shield right after the last line start spamming shield slam and you'll hit him right as soon as he becomes attackable.

Also, Holy wrath is your friend in P2.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Mathalor » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:42 pm

Forgot about hw. And I love using it in an/ok.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Isetnefret » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:00 am

Probably your DPS.

I mark a target, if anything besides that target gets pulled off of me by anyone other than a healer, they just promoted themselves to tank, and I will not be picking that target back up.

THOSE people are the same people who stand in poison clouds and fail at Heigan dance, or stand still in Hodir's room.

To hell with them, seriously.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Florisia » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:12 am

By the time I make it to the Black Knight in HTOC, I ususally know whether or not I've got someone who is an impatient DPS. I generally squat on the black knight, pop a concecrate on his last line and spam hand of reckoning. Even if your DPS manages to do more initial threat, the taunt will generate threat and pull immediately off of that DPS. Holding him in the consecration long enough will help generate threat, etc. Keep an eye on your other party memebers for that annoying add that spawns initially. Don't really need to consec for his first phase, but if you're worried about DPS ganking things from you, use all the threat you can make.

Consecration + HW on phase 2, and hope your DPS doesn't do so much AOE that everything de-aggros off of you. I tend to have this problem a lot with mages. The worst part about this is that the mages I've been with seem to run as far away from me as possible, making pulling anything off of them a lot harder than it needs to be.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Isetnefret » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:46 am

Mages have Iceblock. If they do something bone-headed like that, I expect them to use it, or we didn't need their DPS anyway.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby JU1CYFRU1T » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:14 am

My biggest problem is that **I** am the n00b in the group. Yes, I am the tank, but my problem is that all my friends WAY out-gear me. Comparing wow-heroes gear scores, I am short by as much as 500-600 points (our healer has a 2500+ gear score).

I know that a lot of my issues with agro are positional, and I need to work on moving while I tank more (especially in phase 2), but I can't keep agro at ALL in H ToCh. I don't really have a problem in any other heroics... but ToC. The healer/dps will occasionally pull off of me, but it is rare. We walk into ToC, and it is like I forgot to turn Righteous Fury on.

Keep in mind that this is a 5 man composed 100% with rl friends. It isn't like I am pugging with different DPS, or a different healer. We will run H UP, H UK, H Nexus and H ToC. Everything is fine until we hit ToC. Once we get there, it is less about being able to survive... it's about keeping agro long enough to down the bosses.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Isetnefret » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:42 pm

Avenger's Shield + Hammer of the Righteous isn't enough?

You're using SoV right? What's your armory profile.

I've run with T9 DPS, and they can't pull mobs off me, unless they do it before one of my two 6 second abilities hits.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:49 pm

Mathalor wrote:So I can ask atleast one specific question, how would you start a 969 on the black knight, if you knew the dps were going to charge in on your 1st or 2nd global?


Are you not opening with Avenger's Shield?

Hit DP then drop a cons just before he finishes talking.
Open with AS.
Hit him with SSlam
Judge.
Hotr.
HS.
SSlam again.
Cons should be up by this point.

It should be really, really hard for people to pull off you if you hit him with AS/SSlam right off the bat.

If you want to be really crafty you can try Exo/Taunt/AS as an opening combo, which'll give you some time to hoj/otherwise deal with the add.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Calleana » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:43 pm

P1 of the black knight fight I normally tell my dps to deal with the add so he doesn't squish a squishy. It is not going to produce those lovely numbers on recount that the dps love so much but it is going to make the healers job easier.From what my healers keep telling me this is a reasonably healer intensive fight.

If the dps are dealing with the add when it pops up (it comes from the corpse of the announcer) this should give you the threat lead to not worry about it even when the dps vastly outgear you.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby Isetnefret » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:48 pm

Tell them to turn recount off.

If you castrate their ePeen, DPS is INFINITELY more useful.

Hell, they MIGHT even start to think of the raid first. Trust me, I had to change underwear a couple of times when things like that started happening. OMFG? You actually used Scorpid Sting? Are you sure you didn't just buy this account on Ebay?
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby JU1CYFRU1T » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:56 am

Isetnefret wrote:Avenger's Shield + Hammer of the Righteous isn't enough?

You're using SoV right? What's your armory profile.

I've run with T9 DPS, and they can't pull mobs off me, unless they do it before one of my two 6 second abilities hits.


Here is my armory. I don't know if my spec is 100% correct, but I know that most of it is okay. I refuse to waste a second point in Judgement, because I am sticking to 969 more often than not, so removing a second off the CD would mess up my rythm. I can (and do) deviate from the rotation when needed, but the other point is a waste imo (am I wrong?). Also, I just got the Peacekeeper last night... normally using Red Sword to put me at defense minimum.

Let me re-explain, because as I read back through... I wasn't clear enough in my first post:
In my normal 5-man, our healer is VERY geared (here). I don't usually have a problem with agro most of the time... and usually when I do, it is because of my n00bieness (like moving too far forward, and not noticing that the mob is actually behind me... thanks wall-o-sct).

It just seems like we (as a 5-man group) completely fall apart during ToC. I don't know what it is... whether she (our healer is a girl irl) is going AoE spam heal-crazy to keep everyone up, or if she is just dropping BOMB heals all day, but she can pull off of me with ease. Yes, Righteous Fury is up... yes, I am using Seal of Corruption... yes, I am using Blessing of Sanc

My pull rotation is Divine Plea, Avenger's Shield, Consecration, Hammer of the Righteous, Holy Shield, Shield of Righteousness, Judge (light)

As I said before... this problem is ONLY with THIS 5-man group. I have run H ToC 5-10 times with PUGS, and haven't had a problem. As you can see from my achievments, I just got H ToC last night (took FOREVER to get the priest in phase 2... stupid RNG). Ran it last night with a priest, hunter, shammy, dk and myself (prot) and one-shot it... idk what our problem is.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:01 pm

Crusade is considerably better than 4/5 SotP for current levels of content, which you may or may not be working in.

2/2 Imp Judge is situationally considerably better than 1/5 conviction, but such is the stuff holy wars are made of.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby vegardhv » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:53 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Mathalor wrote:So I can ask atleast one specific question, how would you start a 969 on the black knight, if you knew the dps were going to charge in on your 1st or 2nd global?


Are you not opening with Avenger's Shield?


I find opening with hand of reck is nice, unless he's already targeted you, but then it's off the global cooldown so you can throw avenger's 0.3 millisecs after it.
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Re: Threat Issues

Postby PessimiStick » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:26 am

I generally pull everything with HoR/Avenger, and then ShoR on the next GCD. After that I just 969 to victory. I've never really had problems with aggro, even when I was considerably undergeared compared to my DPSers.
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