Got hammered in my first run through heroics

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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Pizbit » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:29 am

I always used cheap armor kits as enchants for temporary gear.
Sounds like the healing was low if the person who replaced you was dying as well.
It's worth noting that the first few pulls in UK will stun, punishing your lack of HP and armor and can catch healers unawares. Later on there are lots of bombs that can go off in quick succession(be aware of this and move away from them on the ground).

Some things I did when I started heroics:
Made a bunch of stamina scrolls for when I didn't have a priest in party.
I used up my stock pile of agility elixirs.
I always used buff food, even the 'cheap' stuff that doesn't require northern spices makes a difference.
Use bubble wall and HoJ frequently to reduce incoming damage. On a 4 mob pull using HoJ will reduce incoming damage by up to 25% for 6 seconds.
Run with devo aura up. Resistance auras for some bosses or mobs. Fire for the drakes, shadow for first 2 bosses.


BTW, once you get past this phase, you'll feel like this all over again when you tank Patchwerk hatefuls, QQ.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Arcand » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:49 am

My first recommendation: heroic Violet Hold, every day.

* It's easy to get groups for because it has a reputation for being fast. (Not great badges-per-hour, but fast.)
* It's tuned for groups that aren't quite smart enough to figure out drinking between pulls. Nothing in there will beat you up too bad.
* The epic tank pants drop reasonably often and are a very solid piece of gear.

If you've got the money, or if you're a miner, set your sights on the titansteel helm. It has a meta slot, which is a huge advantage, it has gobs of stamina which is a good marketing tool when you're trying to get groups, and I'm discouraging you just a little bit from paying for the titansteel shield because heroic Stratholme drops a very similar one.

(Heroic Stratholme is another one that, because it has a timer, has a reputation for being fast, and is tuned for half-OOM groups. The shield doesn't drop all that often IME but it's not bad. And don't forget, in Stratholme you have an AoE stun. ;) )
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby loudent2 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:35 am

Thanks for the responses guys. I have a lot of good ideas to work on.

One question though. I have enough titansteel to make either a helm or a shield (and the upcomning patch has tons of people camping titanium ore). I have several recomendations for upgrading the shield and one for the helm. My personal thought is the helm is a better investment right now as it opens up two slots and provides much, much more stamina but at the cost of some defense.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Discus » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:06 am

If you can keep your defense above 540 I'd go for the helm. As a casual player, I found I replaced my shield really quickly (one drops in CoS and another in Naxx10) but I'm still wearing the helm.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Arcand » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:08 pm

I still have the helm in one of my sets, but I've gotten two upgrades over the titansteel shield so far...and I could have had a third by spending a few badges. Definitely recommend you get the brain bucket first.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby mandm413 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:29 am

Definitely the helm, lots of stamina and a meta slot. Another good gear upgrade thats pretty easy to get now is the tanking axe from the argent tourney. Its 40 champion seals but on the gear list from this forum you won't replace it outside of Naxx or above.

Also second running H Vh as often as possible for legs and a trinket and H COS often for bracers and shield. Plus H COS is pretty easy for a pally tank.

There is a good gear ranking list here in the gear forums and make sure you read up on all the instance guides. Its not right but groups expect the tank to know the instance and fights better than they do. On that note make sure if you are going to run H VH you have to know the boss strategies for that one as there isn't a lot of time to talk when you find out the boss you are going to get. Also UK may be the lowest level normal instance in northrend but I would put 4th or 5th down the list of easiest heroics. The first boss can give people fits with unlucky ice tombs.

They did the same thing in Burning crusade, the hellfire instances were the first one people ran but ended up being 2 of the 3 hardest ones in bc on heroic difficulty. There is a good ranking thread in the heroics section here also.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Trident » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:43 am

mandm413 wrote:Its not right but groups expect the tank to know the instance and fights better than they do.


As a tank, I would expect myself to know the fights better than the rest of the group. More times than not, the success of the group lays on the shoulders of the tank more than anyone else. While that doesn't give the rest of the people in the group an excuse to not know a fight well or perform lazily, I enjoy the responsibility of knowing a fight inside and out and leading a group through the fight.

In the words of Tyler Durden: "I'll bring us through this. As always. I'll carry you - kicking and screaming - and in the end you'll thank me."
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby leperkhaun » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:02 pm

I started heroics with 18-19k hp. Honestly there are a couple things you need:

1) Know the instance. Read up on the strats. Know mob kill orders. Know what abilities the mobs have. Know the bosses. Sure there is a learning curve, but there is NO excuse to go into an instance and not have a good idea about what to expect. Just because you havent run an instance before, doesnt mean that you shouldnt know the general idea.

2) Run NORMAL versions of the instance. For the most part heroic versions are the same. Running normal versions will help you out.

2) Inspect your group. I had a druid in mid 70 quest blues and greens tell me he had 2k+ healing. While you have the minimum required for heroics, you need to make sure that your healer is at least as geared as you.

3) Use CC. Until your gear gets better it will be needed.

I cant check your armory, but if you are in a guild who has people in good gear ask them to go with you.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby loudent2 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:16 pm

leperkhaun wrote:I started heroics with 18-19k hp. Honestly there are a couple things you need:
While you have the minimum required for heroics, you need to make sure that your healer is at least as geared as you.


Well that's an interesting suggestion that I didn't see coming. In retrospect it makes perfect sense, the only problem is I'm not sure what constitutes minimum gear for healers but I bet I can track down that information.

I cant check your armory, but if you are in a guild who has people in good gear ask them to go with you.


Still unguilded. I'm not against being in a guild it just seems that WoW no longer supports the traditioanl guild recruitment structure. (i.e. You run a few instances with someone who likes your style and you get invinted into a guild on an trial basis and do a few runs before full membership). It seems It's either fly by guild invites or random tells.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Arcand » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:39 pm

loudent2 wrote:
leperkhaun wrote:I started heroics with 18-19k hp. Honestly there are a couple things you need:
While you have the minimum required for heroics, you need to make sure that your healer is at least as geared as you.


Well that's an interesting suggestion that I didn't see coming. In retrospect it makes perfect sense, the only problem is I'm not sure what constitutes minimum gear for healers but I bet I can track down that information.


You don't need a masters degree in healing to get a pretty good idea. If he's more than half in level 80 purples, and isn't gearing for agility, he's probably good to go for most heroic content.

Or if you have some pretty solid faith in humanity, you can simply tell him what your gear level is and ask him if he can handle it. That weeds out honest undergeared people, and pussies who won't ever go through an instance portal unless everyone has gear from two tiers ahead.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Mindrak » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:29 pm

Don't forget CC and cooldowns. Having 1 CC in heroics makes a large difference until you're 25k+ hp. At that point it's a matter of using cooldowns at the right time. In heroic UP there's a trash pull you'll want to shield wall until you're in full epics (or your healer is) for example.

In UK you need to kill the mob that stuns first; using HoJ (at like 60%) on it while focus firing it makes the early pulls trivial. You should only see 1 of these in a pack, and they generally don't stun on pull. Stunning runemasters also speeds up clear time.

On Meathook in CoS for example, you'll want to trinket as he starts to get low, and shieldwall the last few %. It's always a good idea to trinket at 20-30% and shield wall at 10-20% in a heroic on a boss with a PUG if they're still available.

Feel free to use a tanking cooldown every pull until you're really familiar with the instance.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:31 pm

Good that someone mentioned the stuns. On the first pulls of UK the mobs will stun you and you take a lot of damage as a result.

The drakes can hit pretty hard in the next room, so liberal use of your cooldowns is probably a good idea. A healer should be able to keep you up with only the drake on you, so take out the lower-HP humans first because it reduces incoming damage fastest. If the healer can't keep you up through just the drake's damage, then you can't survive that room anyway.

If you are dying after that, look at your healer and DPS.

A problem you will have is the desire of DPS to go AoE on every pull. AoE does more damage, so the pull as a whole dies more quickly. However, you are not interested in the pull dying more quickly; you are interested in reducing the number of things hitting you at once.

A healer can keep you up indefinitely with 1, 2 or even 3 mobs on you, but if there are 4 then you need to get the first one down as quickly as possible in order to reduce the pull to a point where the healer CAN keep you up indefinitely. Doing damage to the first 3 is completely irrelevant to the task of taking down the 4th.

Mark your targets and insist on focused fire at least until the pull is manageable.

The DPS also needs to be strong enough. If the healer can only keep you up for 10 seconds with 4 things on you, then the first mob must be killed in that 10-second window or you will wipe.

The DPS needs to behave. If they pull aggro, then the healer's attention will be divided and a crucial heal will be cast on a DPS instead of you. Again, you wipe.

As much as possible run with your friends and your guild. Pugs suck and will do none of the above no matter how much you ask.

By the way, Hammer of Justice is your friend. You will reduce your incoming damage by 1 mob hopefully long enouogh to take it down. Use it whenever possible.

The bottom line for you at this level is to reduce the amount of incoming damage in the fastest possible way. Your health pool is only a buffer - as soon as that buffer runs low, the healer cannot keep up. You have that amount of time to reduce the pull to a manageable size.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Mert » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:30 am

Koatanga wrote:A problem you will have is the desire of DPS to go AoE on every pull.


Luckily these guys are often easy to spot - they're the ones that post (or ask for) Recount after trash pulls and then go on about how "imba" they are because they hit 2k AoEing six mobs at once :roll:
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Pryncess » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:14 am

As stated above it boils down to 4 things:

1. Enchant EVERYTHING you get. +18 sta kits are dirt cheap, buy a ton, slap them on everything if your gear has the 540 defense. If it's epic spend the cash to get the best. There's tons of forum posts about it

2. Gem EVERYTHING. I don't care if it's a cheap green gem, new gear, put a gem in there until you got the cash for the blue ones.

3. Spend the money to buy QUALITY. Look, I"m lazy and the PuGs suck on my server. I saved a bunch of cash, bought some QUALITY epic gear and then enchanted it up. Saved me from running heroics which then lets me start running Naxx 10/25.

4. Protect yourself first on every pull. Divine plea, Avenger Shield, Holy Shield, Bubble, Priest bubble, etc. The first 5-10s of any AoE pull is crucial to survive.


20k hp, 535 defense, with the right spec and prep you can rock heroics like cake. I'm sitting on 545 with 24k unbuffed and in all crafted and blues. I start Naxx 25 tonite as an OT. I'm sure i'll get blasted on a few pulls but the healers are bored and want to have some fun.
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Re: Got hammered in my first run through heroics

Postby Braundo » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:47 am

Mert wrote:Luckily these guys are often easy to spot - they're the ones that post (or ask for) Recount after trash pulls and then go on about how "imba" they are because they hit 2k AoEing six mobs at once :roll:

Along with their healer cousins, the guys who ask for healing meters after every boss fight in any 10-man.
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