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Blessing of sanctuary

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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Jasari » Thu May 28, 2009 9:55 am

Rothes wrote:Here is my idea...

Scrap BoSanc totally... make that talent into... Sanctuary - passive always on BoSanc while a shield is equipped (mana return and 3% reduction).


Does the rest of the your raid have to equip shields to benefit from the 3% damage reduction?
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Cylan » Thu May 28, 2009 11:58 am

I'd say just turn blessing of sanctuary into "improved blessing of kings", where you receive the 3% damage reduction in addition to the kings effect. Make the dodge/block/parry mana regen mechanism baseline.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby defeated » Thu May 28, 2009 1:21 pm

I think the reason the buffs are implemented the way they are is to make sure you bring more than 1 paladin to the raid, i always liked have 2-4 paladins, now the Greater blessings imo should last 60 mins and the regular ones last 30, but hey its blizz, remember when we used to have to apply our seal after every judgement? I do, they may change it, they may not, we'll see, it would be nice but i don't think you should expect it. Now if you want to get kings and Sanc, just make sure there is 2 paladins, and if its a holy paladin, make sure they put points into both improved blessings in holy and ret (although i have seen holy pallies spec imp judgements /facepalm) and just have the other paladin give you 10 min kings and give yourself 10 sanc, speak to them on vent, i am sure anytime we have just 1 additional paladin i drill it into their heads to buff me 10 min kings to the point of them getting in eventually before each pull. =D


Wall o text crits everyone who reads this for over 9000 DPS.... hope you can read fast. =P
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Solare » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:55 am

Frankly, I could give a damn about the 3% damage reduction. I just hate having to choose better stats vs. the ability to do my job if I'm not taking enough damage to refresh my mana. Especially in boss fights where I have to switch between roles. Such as the arena in Thorim. Of course I'm tanking that. Who wouldn't stick a prot pally in there. And lots of trash means lots of little itty bity hits that will make me OOM faster than pre-Wrath Boomkin

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So, I put on Sact. Then, Thorim drops down. And we gotta tank swap. And he's hitting for more and more, and unless I can actually find a moment to change my blessing, my health is a good 2k lower than it would be normally. I don't need to tell you how that can save your ass, but here's a food for thought...

Blessing of Kings gives me more Stamina than Improved Power Word: Fortitude.

I have, right now, over 2500 unbuffed Stamina. Blessing of Kings gives me over 250 Stamina.
Power Word Fortitude (Rank 8 ) gives 165 Stamina, improved, it gives 214.5 Stamina.

That's not even including the Extra Strength (120) Agility (14) Intellect and Spirit. >_>;

So, imagine those were talents. And you could only have one.

10% to all stats.
Mana back from avoidance, 3% damage reduction.

You'd probably think to yourself, "I can work around the mana, give me those stats!"

This is why Sanctuary needs to be fixed.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Scottzirra » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:29 pm

In my personal experience, I have never been tanking in a situation in which I would hesitate to use BoSanct over Kings. It is true that the str from kings adds a substantial bit of threat, and the agi provides a reasonable amount of avoidance, but it never feels like a game-breaker. My threat is always high enough, I am staying alive, and I am not going OOM. I certainly have never felt crippled having to use BoSanct.

The trade off for being dependent upon the blue bar is that we have very very high front loaded threat.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Awyndel » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:48 am

I understand your dilemma. But usually with perma dp, and healing, you should be fine on mana on a boss. You can even use seal of wisdom on trash. If nothing works time to spec one more point into spiritual atunement. This all with using kings ofc.

That said, most raids have more then 1 or 2 paladins.

Pallypower CAN do this. I call it cross kings. You assign sanctuary to paladins, and the ret assigns impr might. You both give each other lesser kings. It keeps perfect track of the timers, can even refresh the blessings in combat if u want.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby kywirelessguy » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:52 am

Its not really about any kind of lack of buffs or mana problems or mod setup. In the end the problem is its annoying, and I think over the past several patches (since 2.4) blizzard has been trying to remove or fix the little annoyances that really serve no purpose except to be annoying. Can we "make do" right now? Sure, not an issue, but that doesn't mean the system can't improve. I'm just dissappointed in the lack of blue posts on the subject. It would be nice to hear even a "Yes, we're working on it" or better yet, "No we don't think pally blessings are where they need to be".

There have been a lot of posts on suggestion/tanking forums about it, but the response is actually pretty terrible. You have warriors/dks/druids saying we're asking for more buffs, and pallies arguing against it for some reason I can't seem to figure out.

imo I just don't see anything changing anytime soon or blizz probably would have at least acknowledged that it is an issue by now.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Bundy » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:57 am

Sorry but it really sounds to me like you just want more power. You have 4 buffs to choose from, and you can only have 1 per paly. Its that way for a reason, so your no OP! Be happy with what you got id say, cuz I would love to always have 10% stats all the time, or 3% less damage all the time. As it is, I warriors can only put 3% less damage on someone else.... As for making the normal buffs 30 mins and greaters 60, how do you think I feel having 2-3 min buffs? You wanna talk aboout annoying....having to rebuff 3 times during a fight is annoying, especialy when your trying to focus on other things. If they extended the time to 10 mins, I would shit my pants. Yet people are complaining that 10-30 min buffs arent long enough? ANyways, plays are awesome for groups, I love having them in my group for the buffs and auras.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby moduspwnens » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:44 am

I have to use an addon just to buff correctly.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Dzzope » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:18 am

Bundy wrote:Sorry but it really sounds to me like you just want more power. You have 4 buffs to choose from, and you can only have 1 per paly. Its that way for a reason, so your no OP! Be happy with what you got id say, cuz I would love to always have 10% stats all the time, or 3% less damage all the time. As it is, I warriors can only put 3% less damage on someone else.... As for making the normal buffs 30 mins and greaters 60, how do you think I feel having 2-3 min buffs? You wanna talk aboout annoying....having to rebuff 3 times during a fight is annoying, especialy when your trying to focus on other things. If they extended the time to 10 mins, I would shit my pants. Yet people are complaining that 10-30 min buffs arent long enough? ANyways, plays are awesome for groups, I love having them in my group for the buffs and auras.



Not more power... just easier to implement

You may have to re-buff 2-3 times in a fight... But what if you have to target each class to do it and then specific people if there are say druid tank to boomkin or resto.. you assign kings and someone moans "I want xxx"

what about if you are prot warrior wanting commanding shout then all your melee dps moan battle.. you have 1 choice and it's an aura(or cast like an aura then acts as a buff).. and if you have a second warrior then it's a no-brainer.. you just have to remember to keep it up.. Though it does suck having such a small amount of time on it..

Other cast-able buffs from priests, druids, mages etc are 60min.. and other pally buffs just got improved.. so if your ret or holy you will want both greater kings + your imp.. ATM we have to throw around kings then 10 min sanc ourselves and get another pally to 10 min king us if we want our alternative to imp blessings which plainly sucks.. add to that that our buff is class wide instead of raid and that some other hybrid players may want the same done for them and you have a time wasting headache for something which is supposed to be at our core..


I think drop kings to 7% or 8% and then build in the added benefits from sanc as an imp BoK to bring it more in line with the other blessings and their mechanics...

This means we aren't getting 2 blessings for the price of one imp blessing and with it the mechanics of boss's damage isn't under threat of becoming unbalanced or whatever from having 10% kings and 3% dam reduction on full raid(even though you get that with 4 pallies now anyway)..
I think the 3% damage reduction will make-up for the 3% less extra stats and the mana will give enough of a boost to make it worthwhile and balanced

Either that or a re-working of prot imp auras along with this..
Make the bonus to imp DeV aura 3% less damage.. build the mana into RF and the extra healing can be added as imp BoK in place of BoS now.. or for bok and imp bok make the base BoK 8% and imp BoK 8% +6% extra healing or 10% and 4% extra healing or something like that...

It means that there aren't point or position issues... but the numbers would need to be crunched in order to balance it out...


Really didn't realize this was such a long post.. but meh.. :razz:
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Bundy » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:10 am

Thats alot more reasonable than just combining two blessings. When I said you guys wanted more power, thats what I meant. Combining two blessing into one increases your power does it not? I feel you though, I havnt radied with my paly yet so I can imagine its 10x worse than 5 mans, which can be annoying by itself. But if you were to even think about combining two of anything, one or both would have to be reduced in some way to balance it, common sense. But in general I would simply say stop complaining, too many buffs is alot better than not enough right?
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Gamingdevil » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:54 am

I wouldn't mind if they put the mana regen part somewhere else (because prot pallies are the only ones to benefit from it anyway) and just made the 3% damage reduction and "Improved Blessing of Kings" But there shouldn't be a reason to actually nerf blessing of kings because of this. That's nerfing the whole raid, not just balancing talents.
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Dzzope » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:26 am

Bundy wrote: But in general I would simply say stop complaining, too many buffs is alot better than not enough right?



Very true... I love the buffs I have... but I hate having to swap between graters and 10 min buffs on individuals... that is my only problem with pally buffs..
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby toothdecaykills » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:41 am

To me, it's just as much a quality of life issue as it is anything else. Renewed Hope, from Discipline Priests...
    1. Does not preclude the use of any other group buff the class can provide. Simply put, Priests are not deciding between fort and rh when they buff you, they instead provide both.
    2. Is tied to a much used Priest ability meaning reapplication is simple, easy, and cheap.
    3. Is not a required talent in order to fulfill their primary role.

We also have yet to consider that BoSanc is a group buff (Greater Blessing) that FULLY benefits only one spec out of 30.

In the end, the talent should read Sanctuary. Combine the effects of SA into it, then, in SA's current place, implement a similar effect as Renewed Hope. When Holy Shield is cast, you blanket the raid with a 3% damage reduction buff. The solution truly does not need to exist with this level of alteration. The goal is to allow an equally easy to apply raid buff in the form of 3% damage reduction while removing the issues inherent with BoSanc. We want the mana on avoidance, but as we are the only spec in the game that will routinely benefit from this, we can simply keep it passive either talented or baseline. The DR can be attached to any low level Prot talent which currently contains a useless secondary effect. Think Judgments of the Just (lol Seal of Justice) or Touched by the Light (lol prot heals).
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby kywirelessguy » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:52 pm

I'm a bit confused at this point...Let me elaborate.

When Blizzard first put up the class questions post (Which so far Shaman is the only one answered and I believe Mage is next) the very first question I saw was about pally buffs, more specifically prot pally buffs. Now I don't know if that post has been deleted/removed or if I was looking at maybe the European version, because now the only questions I see on the front page of the US Paladin Questions for devs thread are all about ret.

Anyhoo...confused or not I'm still looking forward to when they get to the Paladin questions. I'm hoping beyond hope they have something to say about blessings.
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