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3.1 Talent Spec Guide

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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Dorvan » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:13 pm

Minnerva wrote:would it be logical, not saying it should be done. 53/18 spec viable without the JotJ and 12/53/6 as secondary spec for bosses that might present a problem if they hit fast? i am saying because they lowered the damage to ignis and made him faster meaning he doesn't hit hard anymore but fights like VoA were you have to take lots of damage from the new boss would be good to switch to 12/53/6. would that make 53/18 be able to avoid the JotJ? i am saying because i was wondering if it would have a big impact if i skipped that and grabbed presuit of justice for mobility


The Ignis change was that they wanted his damage to be less burstly, so they reduced his damage and made him swing faster. The two are not inherently connected though...applying a melee slow to the boss doesn't cause them to hit harder.

JotJ is one of the most important talents in any tanking build and shouldn't be dropped by any tank that wants to be taken seriously.
Last edited by Dorvan on Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Dorvan » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:14 pm

Honorshammer wrote:A discussion for the 'Early Prot Optons" (Divinity, Hammer fo Justice,DS/DG) would be a nice addition.


Yep, coming as soon as I've got some time....probably can squeeze in a little more work on it now.
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Dorvan » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:58 pm

Ok, I've drafted up the early prot talents review. I'm sure there are places it could be refined, so feel free to pitch in with some feedback.
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:07 pm

Dorvan wrote:JotJ is one of the most important talents in any tanking build and should be dropped by any tank that wants to be taken seriously.

My brain might just be broken atm, but this isn't reading right.
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Dorvan » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:11 pm

No you're right, it's my brain that apparently wasn't working...fixed :P
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:16 pm

In your Early Prot options, you said "Imp Hand of Justice" when you should have said "Imp Hammer of Justice"
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Elt » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:29 am

I can see the 3/3 in crusade in naxx but in Ulduar? You only get the 3% bonus there almost no mobs are humanoid, undead, elemental or deamons (for the extra 3%).
Is it realy that good tps with 3% extra?
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:39 am

Elt wrote:Is it realy that good tps with 3% extra?

Yes.

Dorvan, if you need any help finding a particular graph or calculation from my thread, let me know and I'll hunt it down for you. The link above is the talent analysis, which seems likely to be the most useful for this thread, but I can see the "Crusade vs. Sanctity of Battle" post and a few others also being relevant.
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Arquine » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:33 am

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZE0tAd ... dxo:0fpcz0

my suggested alternative build. Takes full use of 5/5 divinity ; including Divine Guardian. It's not a farce refreshing a 1 minute cooldown shield .
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby kywirelessguy » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:46 am

5/5 Conviction is more threat than 5/5 seals of the pure if I remember correctly. Unless you are going with the imp. LoH build I think you should stay out of the holy tree. Imp hammer of judgement is not something I like to put points in, maybe its because I'm used to the old bc raiding where I didn't have any interrupts ;)

You also really only need 1/2 spiritual attunement. With divine plea staying up through whole fights mana shouldn't be an issue. It might be worthwhile if you're overgearing farm content, but progression stuff shouldn't be an issue.

I really just haven't been sold on divinity. I see a lot of people over at elitist jerks using anywhere from 2/5 to 5/5, but I just feel like the extra points in the ret tree give me more per talent point than putting points in divinity.

This is all opinion and conjecture and from memory, don't judge me too harshly.
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Extermi » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:17 am

I have become increasingly fond of speccing into sacred shield improvements.

While we have a couple of holy paladins there are 2 or 3 tanks needed in most encounters and it is definitely a big plus to be able to keep a 1 minute shield on myself permanently.

The absorption is not too shabby either (as it can proc every 6 seconds) and it indeed seem to stack with block, e.g.:

0:04'55.313 Dunkler Runenwächter #10 melee swing hits Extermi for 485 Physical. (1998 Blocked) (1561 Absorbed)

making it free additional survivability for 1 key press per minute.

Divine Sacrifice is incredibly useful if you are not the current aggro holder (during tank rotations for example), helping your raid and tanking buddies with a raid-wide 10 seconds shield wall (bubble+sacrifice) is priceless. Plus, it fits very well to the protection theme.

My build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZE0tAbuMGsIufdxRb0b
The focus is on survivability (and yes, movement speed can and will add to that, too) and raid utility (divine sacrifice, improved BoM, some spare points in Heart of the Crusader).

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Last edited by Extermi on Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby majiben » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:19 am

EJ data is saying SS stacks with itself thus boosting the value of DG

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t55577-holy ... ost1214562
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Ewige » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:48 am

After running without DSac/DG for a week I'm starting to miss it. I pretty much found time to use it in almost all the fights so far as I'm not MTing any of em.
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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby kywirelessguy » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:28 am

I feel the same way. Besides the obvious XT-002 temper tantrums, I also found time during p3 of easy mode Iron Council where the little dude jumps up in the air and runs around zapping people. Not to mention the added benefit of SS, which we now know stacks, but which I'd guess won't for long. Nothing stacks anymore, I doubt Blizzard lets that last very long.

It doesn't really matter for me personally anyway because I'm usually the only pally in the raid and if there is a pally he's ret. So I'm using SS everytime I can.

OT:

Caveat, probably belongs in UI forum:
Why does the sacred shield spell trigger another spell called exactly the same thing? I'd like to setup my scrolling combat text to display when the aura falls off, but the actual shield buff is the same name as the 1 min buff and its just constantly going off in a fight. Not that looking at my buffs is all that difficult, its just one more thing I have to look away from the raid to manage.

1 pally in a raid sucks, I'm generally OT'ing and having no sanct or no kings is lame. WTB Sanct rolled into Devotion Aura. The whole pally buff thing is all messed up now anyway with shamans bringing wisdom, warriors bringing might, and priests bringing the 3% damage reduction from Sanct.

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Re: 3.1 Talent Spec Guide

Postby MotiVater » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:47 pm

When you see the 2nd SS spell pop up, thats when its actually procced. As you have to first take some damage for it to spring into action and be there to mitigate the next attack.

DSac/DG is lovely <3 Im finding (still fairly early in Ulduar) that the OT role on a number of fights is way more fun (and responsible in many ways) and placing myself in that position, giving more opportunities to use this too.
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