(0/56/15) Putting out the most DPS as a Tank

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(0/56/15) Putting out the most DPS as a Tank

Postby Mysticknight » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:21 pm

Okay So i was just considering and playing around with a few ideas on how to out put the most dps as a prot pally.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0xVA0uGteIRGoxf0x

Protection (56 points)

5/5 Divine Strength
5/5 Anticipation
3/3 Improved Righteous Fury
5/5 Toughness
3/3 Improved Devotion Aura
1/1 Blessing of Sanctuary
3/5 Reckoning
2/2 Sacred Duty
5/5 One-Handed Weapon Specialization
1/1 Holy Shield
5/5 Ardent Defender
3/3 Redoubt
3/3 Combat Expertise
3/3 Touched by the Light
1/1 Avenger's Shield
2/2 Guarded by the Light
3/3 Shield of the Templar
2/2 Judgements of the Just
1/1 Hammer of the Righteous

Retribution (15 points)

5/5 Deflection
2/2 Improved Judgements
3/3 Heart of the Crusader
5/5 Conviction

I normaly run

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=scZ0xVAcuMteIRGoxf00b

Holy (3 points)

3/5 Seals of the Pure

Protection (56 points)

5/5 Divine Strength
5/5 Anticipation
3/3 Improved Righteous Fury
5/5 Toughness
3/3 Improved Hammer of Justice
3/3 Improved Devotion Aura
1/1 Blessing of Sanctuary
2/2 Sacred Duty
5/5 One-Handed Weapon Specialization
1/1 Holy Shield
5/5 Ardent Defender
3/3 Redoubt
3/3 Combat Expertise
3/3 Touched by the Light
1/1 Avenger's Shield
2/2 Guarded by the Light
3/3 Shield of the Templar
2/2 Judgements of the Just
1/1 Hammer of the Righteous

Retribution (12 points)

5/5 Deflection
2/2 Improved Judgements
3/3 Heart of the Crusader
2/2 Pursuit of Justice

So instead of putting points into pursuit of justice was thinking of droping it so i could gain 2 more points and put Enchant Boots - Tuskarr's Vitality 15stam/8% run/walk speed and Titanium Weapon Chain 50% disarm duration and 32 hit. so losing 7stam/7% walk/run speed.

Putting 3 points into reckoning and 5 points into conviction for 5% more crits on melee hits and spells vs 9% more damage on seals...

would it be worth the lost of 7 stam and 7% run/walk speed you think? to gain 8% chance of extra swing 5% over all crits to spell and melee hits?
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Postby Venoseth » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:34 pm

Well, you could always take those 2 points out of PoJ and put them into SotP for 5/5 (since you're going for max DPS).

According to my Recount SoV and it's judgement make up about 15% of my damage, so that's an increase of 2.25% damage / threat.

By those numbers, in situations where you're not going to run out of mana while spamming your full rotation (considering you're going for DPS, I'll have to assume that).

The 5% crit on 85%~ of your damage (depending on how much of your damage comes from non-crittable Consecration) would seem (to me, and apparently very few others) the superior choice.

Anyone who wants to prove me wrong, feel free to use more specific math, I'm just guestimating to try and help. ^^
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Postby Wolvar » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:51 pm

Venoseth wrote:The 5% crit on 85%~ of your damage (depending on how much of your damage comes from non-crittable Consecration) would seem (to me, and apparently very few others) the superior choice.


I agree completely. Haven't yet seen anyone break down SotP versus Conviction.
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Postby Bobness » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:11 am

Time to put in the obligatory:

SOTP > Conviction....

Now that's out of the way, there have been numerous....numerous posts about SOTP Vs Conviction, general wisdon says SOTP > Conviction, I do tend to support this POV even though i don't actually want to.

However the differences are marginal however you cut it.

SOTP or conviction is purely flavour distinction, go with whichever you like.
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Postby Wolvar » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:20 am

Time to put in the obligatory:

SOTP > Conviction....


Upon what is that opinion based is the question.

My last heroic Naxx parse shows sotp gives me just under a 3% increase in damage.

It's generally accepted that 5% crit results in an overall damage increase of more than 4% but less than 5%.
Last edited by Wolvar on Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Levantine » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:33 am

Wolvar wrote:
Time to put in the obligatory:

SOTP > Conviction....


Upon what is that opinion based is the question.


Math. Something I wouldn't expect you to understand.
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Postby Wolvar » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:39 am

Yet the math isn't posted anywhere... even though people have asked for it.

Here's some detail for you:

Heroic Naxx bosses only, WITH SotP:

Seal damage: 1,423,341 (Roughly a 180k increase in damage)

Total damage: 6,560,195

Percentage of DPS increase: ~2.75%


Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Conviction is at least a 4% increase, isn't it?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:40 am

Levantine wrote:
Wolvar wrote:
Time to put in the obligatory:

SOTP > Conviction....


Upon what is that opinion based is the question.


Math. Something I wouldn't expect you to understand.
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Postby Levantine » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:42 am

Wolvar wrote:Yet the math isn't posted anywhere... even though people have asked for it.

Here's some detail for you:

Heroic Naxx bosses only, WITH SotP:

Seal damage: 1,423,341 (Roughly a 180k increase in damage)

Total damage: 6,560,195

Percentage of DPS increase: ~2.75%


Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Conviction is at least a 4% increase, isn't it?


The math has been posted, but the search function isn't something I would expect you to understand either, so I'll let this one slide.
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Postby Wolvar » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:56 am

Nice. Back to back non-contributing, insulting posts.

So sad.
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Postby Serelynn » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:08 am

I know the math is posted somewhere, I think in Basic Training. I'll update if I find the exact link. In the FAQ:


Knaughty wrote:Q: Should I spec Conviction or SotP if I do want DPS/TPS?
A: SoTP. Both are poor value (less than 1% DPS per talent point), but Psiven, myself and several other theory-crafters all worked out that SotP is better than Conviction.
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Postby Wolvar » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:11 am

That's not math. :D


From the advanced forum:
Short version:
• SotP is definitely more TPS, and usually slightly more DPS, and is thus better for tanking. Even if you abuse ShoR x 2, SotP is still a little ahead on TPS, though Conviction might get ahead on DPS depending on your crit rate.
• Conviction is better if you off-heal a lot.
• Conviction requires that you put 4 points of filler in the ret tree.
• Neither talent is particularly good value - both are less than 1% DPS per point.

Dig up the last set of math-craft I did on this issue and post it here


My parses disagree with this.
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Postby Serelynn » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:15 am

All I could find after looking through all of Psiven's posts I could was:

http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... =15#290508

Not sure if Psiven or Knaughty had some more mathcraft numbers up somewhere else. Not too compelling without some more testing and formula. :\
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Postby Wolvar » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:22 am

Perhaps we could persuade Levantine to explain the search function to us. :lol:
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Postby amh » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:42 am

I think conviction is primarily aimed at SoB-tanking. Dunno if that is the case with the OP. There´s some discussion about SoB vs SoV/Corr here, dunno if it´s what you´re after.
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