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Level 70 Threat Cycles in 3.0

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Postby elfjorc » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:11 pm

steadypal wrote:
PsiVen wrote:As mentioned in the OP, Judgement casts are reduced by about 29% if you don't spec into it. So think of the one talent point as increasing your Judgement damage by 41%. Since there's no way you're going to be spending a single talent point on more threat than that, you shouldn't be leaving it out of your spec.

My spec at 70 will probably be something like this: 0/55/6



so 1/2 imp judgement is better than max rank 1h spec? urs is 4% dmg, 10% seems alot better so the 1/2 judge is better than 6% more dmg/threat with ALL of our talents??

would u consider taking the point out of judgements of the just?


It's really preference. For example, I'll probably go http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZaxVA0uMtfIRGoxo instead, cap out AD, then Heart of the Crusader, then whatever, whether it be Seals of the Pure, or Imp HoJ or the 11-pointer etc., as I level up. If more dmg/threat is more useful to you personally, you'd prioritise that higher. I expect I'll have a couple of respecs easy in the time before we can start levelling.

JotJ would be pretty mandatory I think. There's no good reason to lose that ever.
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Postby Jzabunta » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:58 am

Hi, I'm new to the forums, but I'd like to sound off the idea. for single mob tanking, of switching from SoV to SoR once the 5 applications of SoV are on.

- I've been doing some experimentation on the PTR and found the proc from weapon swing after the 5th application was inflicting a negligible amount of dmg/threat (something like 5 dmg).

It occurred to me that you could generate more threat by juggling between SoR and SoV to ensure that all 5 applications of SoV stay on, whilst retaining the swing threat from from SoR.

I realise that doing this with will reduce the dmg caused by your judgement by 20%, but I was wondering if, this would be worth it, overall.
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Postby Jzabunta » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:07 am

Ah just realised that has been covered already :/

Ignore me
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Postby Personage » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:56 am

I am guessing by SoV you mean Corruption horde side?
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Judgements, rubbish?

Postby Discus » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:35 am

Excuse a mini hijack here, I'm too afraid to start a new thread in case i get told off by the stickie police.

Firstly - tried out first heroic last night and, overall - wow! It IS easy mode for all classes and great fun.

However, I'm probably missing something huge but I found judgements to be rubbish at threat generation in comparison to pre-patch. I was sealing vengeance and or righteousness then tried judging either justice/light or wisdom (presume these are only judgement we have now?). Didnt matter which I used - all were like fly swats in terms of threat generation and damage. Is one better to use for tanking?

It didnt matter in the end as almost random clicking of HoR, AS,consecrate generated more tps then I could ever of dreamed of pre-patch. But judgements just drained my mana as their damage seemed so small.

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Postby Brindebos » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:16 am

I have a question about this too. The OP noted that Cons and HS both are on 8 sec CD now. So why stick to a 9 sec rotation? I tested rotations for about an hour last night on fel reavers and found that with 1/2 Imp Judgements my judgements would still fall behind and periodically I would have to wait til the following rotation to judge again. However, when I switched it to 2/2 Imp Judgements, then Cons, HS, and Judgements were all on 8 secs and I could judge every single rotation.

0.0 HS
1.5 Cons
3.0 HotR
4.5 Judge
6.0 <empty>
7.5 HS
9.0 Cons
10.5 HotR
12.0 Judge
13.5 <empty>

... and so on and so forth.

I used this rotation last night in BT and topped 4k tps, simply filling in empty GCD slots with either AS, or Exorcism, or HoW... whichever one was available. It was smooth as glass. Yeah, there's a couple seconds here and there that are free, but I see those as perfect opportunities to reseal, smoke a cig, etc. :)


Edit: Wait, I think I see the rationale. If I judged at 4.5, and it's on 8 secs, then I wouldn't have been able to judge again until 12.5, not 12.0... which means I'm pushing back all subsequent rotations by a half second each rotation. Well, be that as it may, at this point I'm not sure I'm going to worry about it. Not when 3k dps rogues are unable to pull mobs off me.
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Postby PsiVen » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:11 pm

You'll notice that your rotation forces HotR into an 8 second cooldown as well, which cuts its average TPS by 25%. Might not be a large loss with a spell power weapon, but you gain nothing from casting HS a second earlier (single target) and lose only 12% of your Consecration damage by using it every 9 seconds. Once you introduce ShoR into the rotation at 75 you will see a huge threat difference, so might as well get used to it now.

If you're doing 4k TPS it's because of the JoL bug, which will likely be hotfixed soon. Certainly you will be able to hold aggro from a 3k DPS rogue with much less than 4k TPS, but you may find the DPS quite a bit closer if you don't use JoL (or perhaps some other trigger for the bug).
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Postby Brindebos » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:49 pm

Ah, I see what you're saying now. And since I use Rising Tide to tank now, that 25% loss from HotR makes even more difference.

Not familiar with the JoL bug, but I did use it occasionally. I usually use JoW though unless my ret pally is on another target.

Anyway, thanks for the explanation. I'll try it out.
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Postby mayoff » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:40 pm

[URL=http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=paladintankcycleru1.png]Diagram of 969696 cycle

Image[/URL]Image
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Postby Discus » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:47 am

Thanks! That's very useful for those of us with a visual memory (think the old term used to be thick?).
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Postby masterpoobaa » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:59 pm

Im feeling a bit slow this morning...
Lemme get this straight.

I can get a 5stack of Sov up on a target, then switch to SoR essentially for the rest of the battle... only switching back to SoV for judgement time.

Interesting.
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Postby Bobu » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:48 am

mayoff wrote:[URL=http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=paladintankcycleru1.png]Diagram of 969696 cycle

Image[/URL]Image



Awesome thanks for the Diagram.

I have not been able to get my hand on a tanking weapon as of yet but so far i've been using Merciless Gladiators Slicer.

And I have been trying my best to follow the 969696 rotation and men do I see a total difference in Tps when im tanking kara or heroics.
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Postby PsiVen » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:58 pm

masterpoobaa wrote:Im feeling a bit slow this morning...
Lemme get this straight.

I can get a 5stack of Sov up on a target, then switch to SoR essentially for the rest of the battle... only switching back to SoV for judgement time.

Interesting.


No, not quite. If you twist (at 70) you will have SoV up half the time and SoR up half the time, and Judgements will use whichever one you happen to have up at the time.

Honestly I haven't found any situation where twisting would be useful at all. Even Brutallus dies too fast to bother with it.
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Postby Varisa » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:59 pm

I see it's been asked, but it's been over a week....I'm assuming SoV means seal of vengence, in which case, what are we blood elves supposed to be using?

Otherwise, extremely helpful thread, thanks a bunch for making it.
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Postby majiben » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:01 pm

SoCorr (seal of corruption) is the horde version of SoV. Check out this sticky for similar questions.
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