Acceptable level of crushing blows?

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Acceptable level of crushing blows?

Postby brast » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:33 pm

To introduce, I'm not a tankadin, but I started regularly grouping with one so I came here to learn about them. It was here I learned about uncrushable/uncritable and how important it is in raids. Which leads to my question that can apply to both warriors and paladins.

It is not exactly farm mode yet, but my guild has cleared Karazhan for a few weeks now. We recruited another warrior tank to give us enough to do 25-mans more regularly. He has a few epics from Kara and some nice blues. We did the first three bosses of Kara last night and when I uploaded the combat log, I noticed that this guy took 42 crushing blows on 3 boss fights.

I am trying to put this in perspective because I know holy shield and shield block have a limited number of charges and a cooldown, but this seems excessive. Is there a certain level of crushing blows you just accept? For example, if you are tanking a boss plus some adds, I would imagine that opens up both warriors and paladins to CB's. This warrior cast shield block a total of 87 times for the entire run. Is it just a matter of him forgetting to use it enough? I'm just trying to figure out what happened. We overgear the fights so we really didn't notice too much during the raid, but there is no way we can progress on the harder hitting bosses without fixing something.
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Postby Jensaarai » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:45 pm

Either he was overgeared and rage starved and WANTED to take a crushing blow (not likely since he's still in blues) or he just forgot to put shield block up every cooldown. (87 x 5) / 60 = 7.25 minutes, that could be one boss fight, depending on the fight, so either he

1) doesn't know about the combat table and crushing blows (this is VERY likely, I'm finding...most people know shit about game mechanics)


2) he actually wanted to take them.

But I'm leaning heavily towards #1. Maybe Moroes crushed him a lot, but 42? and only 87 casts? Bad numbers :/
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Postby Prepared » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:05 pm

The amount of crushing blows means little without some context. Our of how many total attacks is this? Do you have the parsed data as to his other avoidance? Can we look at the armory?

In 25-man raids, the best Warrior and myself average maybe, maybe 1-3% crushing blows. The higher number is more or less the Warrior tanking the second and third Channelers on Magtheridon instead of me, because he needs to be free to pick him up afterwards (otherwise I'd do it, and he'd tank the fourth).
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Postby Phaex » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:19 pm

Beeing crushimmune isn't a must have in kara, you can survive most bosses even when taking a crush from time to time. Sometimes you even want them to crush, just to be able to produce more threat.
Sure, while tanking multiple mobs, they can quickly eat your shieldblock charges and make you open to crushings, even if you don't want to. Paladins have the advantage here, due to more charges.

If he "forgets" shieldblock while mting gruul or something hard hitting, that'll be a wipe tho. Many tanks don't even know how crushing and stuff works, so maybe you have to tell him before attempting something serious ; )
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Postby Jaydin » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:05 am

i believe (please correct me if i'm wrong) but if you are stunned...say, by those valets or whatever that enrage when u spill their wine etc...doesnt that expose you to crushing blows (the mobs iirc are 72 elite, meaning they can crush 10% of the time)? since you no longer can block or parry or dodge, you are either getting missed or hit...or crushed 10% of the time. so if your recap or whatever is recording throughout the whole time you're in there, all those crushing blows might not be vs a boss

im hoping thats why a few weeks ago i had something like 3 hours of combat time recorded on my paladin tanking - i had 33 crushing blows...rounds out to about 1 per 5 minutes...not the best by any means, and im still trying to figure out what happened (mind you this is total combat time, not just boss fights)

the "main tank" warrior got crushed... 96 1.5 hours of combat time...

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Postby Cragus » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:08 am

I thought only level 73 can crush, so dont worry about kara trash :)

And if the warrior had that many he was being very lazy with shield block
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Postby Jaydin » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:10 am

you sure only level 73 can crush? i thought it was 5% per level difference...
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Postby Jaydin » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:12 am

Jaydin wrote:you sure only level 73 can crush? i thought it was 5% per level difference... ... shing+blow
guess i was wrong
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Postby adese » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:19 am

Jaydin wrote:
Jaydin wrote:you sure only level 73 can crush? i thought it was 5% per level difference... ... shing+blow
guess i was wrong

I've heard the 5% per level difference as well, however I am fairly sure that only raid bosses can crush. Plus, I logged my combat for day 1 of Kara (up through curator), and looking at the damage I took from trash mobs, there were 0 crushing blows. While I did have HS up most of the time, you'd think that I'd get crushed at least once somewhere due to lag or whatever if they could.
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Postby Ills » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:21 am

If you read a little more carefully, it says 5% per level, starting at +3 levels.

i.e. 15% at 73, 20% at 74, etc.
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Postby Jaydin » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:23 am

aye i saw that and /facepalmed

well getting crushed loads less than the "main tank" = good for ego...but i obviously gotta work on it...luckily that was a few weeks ago and my gear continues to slowly but surely improve
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Postby Lore » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:58 am

Technically it's weapon skill difference vs base defense, not level difference, but since very few mobs have increased weapon skill it usually works out to just mean +3 mobs and bosses.
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Postby Vanifae » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:20 am

I get crushed sometimes too, but that is because I am sometimes paying attention to what my raid is doing since I am leading it.

That and Holy Shield lag.
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