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Having to teach people to play their classes

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Having to teach people to play their classes

Postby Manius » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:08 am

What's the best way to handle it when half your group is entering an instance seemingly for the first time? I had a mage that, when told to sheep, did only that during the fight and when asked to also contribute to DPS said that he had seen his sheep break early before. He continually tried to CC mobs unasked that were already consecrated (and being awfully surprised when the sheep broke), sheeped before we could get sap down and was generally awful and probably e-bayed. I've also had hunters that were in love with multishot, rogues that couldn't manage their aggro radius or sap to save their lives, and so on...

I've played both a mage and rogue to 70, did heavy theorycrafting on both classes while leveling and after hitting 70, and pretty much play my paladin the same way (I'm lvl 62 and I spend much of my downtime at work reading tankadin theory). I love tanking, and when I get a good group together it's almost orgasmic in it's fun, but my normal easygoing, laconic self is hard pressed to remain upbeat when I have to run with people like that.

What's a good way to handle them? Figured that most all experienced tankadins have had to deal with this at some point so tips, pointers and encouragement is appreciated ;/
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Postby merinos » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:20 am

pull before they have a chance to do so, if you ever wait without your healer absolutely on 0% mana they WILL at some point pull by themselves, if you are worried about adding a grp, try to open up with as much threat as possible and then run around a corner so the group and the possible caster mobs come follow you to a place where a fear can not even remotely pull unwanted mobs.

pull as long as your healer has mana, if your grp feels you have a good tempo going they will eventually wait on you to do so because they feel convinced they don't have to wait "forever" for the tank to start.

*almost* every single 5man instance can be handled as long as the tank takes care of everything, no single good damagedealer or healer has so much influence on the way a 5man random pug plays out, it all comes down to the tank.

there are exceptions, mobs with frequent aggro resets, bosses where no amount of gear can completely stop a stacking debuff, etc.
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Postby Manius » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:38 am

Yeah I did try that, unfortunately the healer druid was offspec (feral).

In retrospect I don't know what the hell I was thinking joining that group.

merinos wrote:*almost* every single 5man instance can be handled as long as the tank takes care of everything, no single good damagedealer or healer has so much influence on the way a 5man random pug plays out, it all comes down to the tank.


Also that paragraph right there justified 60 levels of Azeroth for me. 4 years of magery, it feels so good to matter in groups ;S
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Re: Having to teach people to play their classes

Postby Barathorn » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:10 am

Manius wrote:What's the best way to handle it when half your group is entering an instance seemingly for the first time? I had a mage that, when told to sheep, did only that during the fight and when asked to also contribute to DPS said that he had seen his sheep break early before. He continually tried to CC mobs unasked that were already consecrated (and being awfully surprised when the sheep broke), sheeped before we could get sap down and was generally awful and probably e-bayed. I've also had hunters that were in love with multishot, rogues that couldn't manage their aggro radius or sap to save their lives, and so on...

I've played both a mage and rogue to 70, did heavy theorycrafting on both classes while leveling and after hitting 70.

What's a good way to handle them? Figured that most all experienced tankadins have had to deal with this at some point so tips, pointers and encouragement is appreciated ;/


Its unfair to say that every player who doesnt understand what to do in an instance is ebayed. From my experiances, its very easy to get a character to level 70 soloing, and there is the issue. Some solo players just dont understand teamwork, they do what they do when they solo as they think that is how their class should be played.

They just need educating, and while you would expect Guilds to do this, sometimes they dont which leads to inexperianced players doing instances. We all started somewhere and also dont forget that only a very small percentage of the WoW subscribers will be interested in theory crafting and working out how to get the maximum efficiency from their characters.

You have 2 choices really,

1/ don't group with them again

2/ educate them, if they turn nasty see point 1, if they listen and improve then congratulations, you have added one person to the small percentage of average or above DPS on your server.

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Postby merinos » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:15 am

it's true and another thing is:
people that actually play instances while leveling instead of being pushed bei 70s will in general understand their toon better and will be able to react intuitively on common mistakes people make, because you know that 'this rogue' will probably pull this other grp just because he moved too close to that grp instead of letting them come near, so if you know that ahead you could toss a shield or a consecration right onto those freshly added mobs and keep everything under control.

*edit barathorn posted while I was typing
A little comment or hint (in a nice way) can go a long way, many people actually don't know they are doing anything wrong and why, so if you can, try to explain why something is bad ("that other grp is standing so close, it will add if we just walk into this grp, so let's pull them out, and then walk up to them.") and what they could change.
and sometimes you have totally clueless healers, you could talk to them and explain why "reactive" healing is a bad thing, and how it could help to just precast healing spells and cancel it if you don't actually need heal when it's finished. That alone would turn a terribad healer into an average one.
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Re: Having to teach people to play their classes

Postby Manius » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:49 am

Barathorn wrote:Its unfair to say that every player who doesnt understand what to do in an instance is ebayed.


I usually don't break out the "ebay" accusation but something about his full 60-pvp epics set was throwing me off.

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll admit that this post was about 70% venting, god knows I usually try my best to be nice, accomodating and informative in PUG's. It just gets kind of hard to instruct and point out what could be done better (and how) without coming off as a bit of an asshole the third time I have to point out what's being done wrong and how to correct it.

That said I have faint memories of wiping our MC group twice on my mage back when MC was The Stuffs because I kept messing up my sheeps. Guess I should probably have more sympathy for nub DPS.
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Postby Toxi » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:31 am

What I do to pugs is this:
FIRST, read http://www.maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=9023 Lookit's guide to heroics. Everybody gets to be clueless except you :)
1)The first few pulls, try out the different cc'ers you've got. Hopefully you get 1 you can depend on for 45mins.
2)With or without a working CC, I agree with Merinos - become your inner tankadin & take away their ability to mess up YOUR run! I have a button loaded with this macro:
Code: Select all
/cast Judgement
/script SetRaidTargetIcon("target", 8)
/cast Seal of Righteousness


I mark a skull before the pull. When that mob has about 30% health & I'm dps-judging it for the last time, I reseal with Crusader & switch targets. When the old skull disappears, I know it's dead - hit my macro, and we're back in business. The only instruction you need to give your nub group is "Kill Skull" & "Heal Me".

Also, macro your RD & bubbles for threat management - but save them for your healer. If you have a cowboy dps'ing off target, let them die.. repeatedly. Then reiterate your kill order: skull,skull,skull.

The only problem that leaves you open to is dps jumping in before you have the mobs assembled & consecrated. Short-circuit that issue by politely asking them to wait. With my macro, I tell them to wait until skull flashes :wink:
EDIT: The macro will occasionally judge & mark without resealing. I keep 'naked' versions of my seal spells hotkeyed to the NUMPAD
Last edited by Toxi on Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Having to teach people to play their classes

Postby Barathorn » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:33 am

Manius wrote:
Barathorn wrote:Its unfair to say that every player who doesnt understand what to do in an instance is ebayed.


I usually don't break out the "ebay" accusation but something about his full 60-pvp epics set was throwing me off.


Yeah that is always suspicious. Not like the legions of S1 wielding DPS we have now.

That said I have faint memories of wiping our MC group twice on my mage back when MC was The Stuffs because I kept messing up my sheeps. Guess I should probably have more sympathy for nub DPS.


Not all of it is nub, some are probably very accomplished solo'ers. Some are plain awful I grant you, I just think as I said before, no-one forces you to group with the plain awful, and it really boils down to 2 choices. We all make mistakes, to err is human.

Its a hard position to be in to be sure. Some players are truly dreadfull.

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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:46 am

I still remember a mage that, at level 40, thought that mage killed monsters by meleeing with mana shield up to save hp.
I asked him what his spells were and he said "Mostly some damage spells but I need to waste mana to use them".
I only said "Try using them instead" and never talked to him again. The toon on that name never made it past 50.
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Postby Manius » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:54 am

Toxi wrote:What I do to pugs is this:
FIRST, read http://www.maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=9023 Lookit's guide to heroics. Everybody gets to be clueless except you :)
1)The first few pulls, try out the different cc'ers you've got. Hopefully you get 1 you can depend on for 45mins.
2)With or without a working CC, I agree with Merinos - become your inner tankadin & take away their ability to mess up YOUR run! I have a button loaded with this macro:
Code: Select all
/cast Judgement
/script SetRaidTargetIcon("target", 8)
/cast Seal of Righteousness


I mark a skull before the pull. When that mob has about 30% health & I'm dps-judging it for the last time, I reseal with Crusader & switch targets. When the old skull disappears, I know it's dead - hit my macro, and we're back in business. The only instruction you need to give your nub group is "Kill Skull" & "Heal Me".

Also, macro your RD & bubbles for threat management - but save them for your healer. If you have a cowboy dps'ing off target, let them die.. repeatedly. Then reiterate your kill order: skull,skull,skull.

The only problem that leaves you open to is dps jumping in before you have the mobs assembled & consecrated. Short-circuit that issue by politely asking them to wait. With my macro, I tell them to wait until skull flashes :wink:
EDIT: The macro will occasionally judge & mark without resealing. I keep 'naked' versions of my seal spells hotkeyed to the NUMPAD


Thanks. I should probably start to use more macros. Is there a thread on these forums with a list of macro scripts and ideas?
Last edited by Manius on Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby merinos » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:04 am

actually i do it quite similarly, i use an addon called simpleraidicons or like that and it enables you to doubleclick some mob and summon a circle with all the different marks around the nameplate of that mob, you can then click skull/square and so on, good for marking the next grp for cc/focusdmg while still finishing the last 2 mobs of the last grp.
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Postby VikrumthePally » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:46 am

merinos wrote:actually i do it quite similarly, i use an addon called simpleraidicons or like that and it enables you to doubleclick some mob and summon a circle with all the different marks around the nameplate of that mob, you can then click skull/square and so on, good for marking the next grp for cc/focusdmg while still finishing the last 2 mobs of the last grp.


I know I read it somewhere on this site. But I'll throw it back out. Call me lazy but I hate clicking a mob then right clicking setting mark etc. Just when we are trying to move quickly it gets old.

Anyhow just go to your bindings in your menu scroll down a bit. Think it's under raid targets or raid marking something.

Anyhow I have Star bound to 1, Circle bound to 2, X bound to 3, Skull bound to 4, and Moon bound to 5.

I have a macro up for anytime we have a new 5th person in our group saying that is the kill order. And that the moon is usually used for CC if need be. And that as long as we follow this kill order things will be smooth. Since I have been tanking for some pugs (when my buddies aren't on) I have had 1 count it 1 terribad group. A couple of so so's and a quite a few holy crap these people are good.

The thing I have come to find out about wow is that most people are just looking for a general direction. You give order and most I said "most" of the time people will fall in place.

Good luck though in future pugs.
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Postby Toxi » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:25 am

Here isis the macros sticky from MT.com, lots of suggestions on how to customize them for your playstyle.
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Postby Ciandin » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:51 am

I have the skull icon bound to my 'g' key, so I just hit 'g' on the monster I'm attacking and let dps know to always dps the skull
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Postby EvilNuff » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:58 am

merinos wrote:it's true and another thing is:
people that actually play instances while leveling instead of being pushed bei 70s will in general understand their toon better and will be able to react intuitively on common mistakes people make...


I cannot disagree strongly enough with this statement. Wow is *so* easy, especially levelling up when you can just run an instance at higher level than intended, that in pugs you learn nothing about how to play your class in them.

Honestly I firmly believe that a person solo'ing a character to 70 and then spending 15-30 minutes reading a well done class FAQ will know their character better than someone who just levels up in pugs in instances all the way to 70 without any outside information. Heck I would take an ebayed character with someone playing who takes the time to read up on how to play their class before anyone who refuses outside information.
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