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Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Neara » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:13 pm

I really could do with some help from anyone who's killed Anub with 1 Add tank, because me and my raid start to go beyond frustration.

Today our third week trying Anub ended, we did something around 100 Tries on Anub by now (the counter is quite nice to keep track of that) and we've seen third phase only about ~5 times and that only for seconds. Biggest issue is me (being the add-tank) getting insta-gibbed. My stats are ok, they could be better but i stay alive with all 4 adds banging at me. What i really have problems with is catching the Adds and positioning them without getting hit in the back.
Today was my worst day yet, i got gibbed about 10-15 times in 20 tries or so. So we have 4 Adds, one left and right near anub (front) and two left and right far away (back). I HoR the left front Add, after that i AS the right front Add, a hunter misdirects the back adds on me. I turn around and backpaddle onto the icepatch and while doing it 1-3 adds think they should rape me from behind, crawl around me and take the virginity of my cute draenei - and now you have a nice picture to try to get rid off, ..anyway I totally don't have a clue what i could do better.
And in 50% of the cases the misdirect doesn't work properly and the hunter jumps around with the back left Add at him hoping i taunt before his deterrence runs out, which doesn't work because by the time i RD him a healer pulls of him and now i have to target the Add and HoR it, which Anub prevents by having the largest butt a Boss ever had, one that's even larger than it shows. Anyone got an idea for directly targeting a specific add while staying right next to Anub? Tab-targetting works somehow, but by the time i get to the add i want it already downed a healer or two.

And before i forget, we have to take icepatches as they come, because we have no damn DK in the raid.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Rhiannon » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:49 pm

We've been using two hunters for initially picking up two adds with me picking the other two up for our last couple of weeks of tries, leading to kill last night, and there has been much abuse thrown at the hunters. Maybe fafhrd could shed insight - is there something inherently buggy about explosive shot? In early attempts our hunters kept pulling aggro on the adds they were meant to be MDing to all the time, and it still happens from time to time. They said something about it being due to explosive shot's ticks or some such, so the two solutions we tried were: don't use explosive shot in MDs, instead use something like aimed -> auto -> arcane, or just FD and stay down a second after every MD.

Rather than pick up both close ones, I preferred picking up two on one side and let the hunters MD one each on the other. I'd AS the east one, taunt (HoR) the south east one, and the first hunter would MD the west one while the other MDed the south west one. Because the second hunter has to wait for the first hunter's MD to go off before he can do it, often the south west one was still targeting a healer by the time I'd picked my two up, so I was able to Righteous Defense it on to me. If your set's anything like mine your hit rating's rather low, and I've ended up dropping a bit of block value to push my hit up, as missing that Avenger's Shield can really screw things up.

My procedure when adds are about to spawn is:

Get off ice, weapon switch to hit weapon (shiver with hit gem, weapon chain).
As soon as adds are up, move a little to south-east side of anub (get MD #1).
AS east mob, HoR south east mob (lots of practice with getting a consistent camera angle means I'm able to tab target these two fairly reliably).
Run across the south edge of the ice and tab to the south-west mob, RD it if it's not targeting me (tbh, grid does show who has aggro so I ought to be able to use a mouseover RD macro on grid, which should remove some of the potential for screw ups).
Hand of Freedom myself.
Run backwards on to the ice, drop consec.
HotR when the first add gets to me - my HotR has a weapon switch macro to my avoidance weapon macroed into it - I have to be careful not to spam the macro before any add is in melee range else the weapon switch goes through, putting my in GCD, and delaying my next threat move.
Two rogues tricks to me and FoK spam.

I found switching to an addon for enemy nameplates did make clicking on a nameplate if needed a lot easier than using the standard blizzard ones. Personally I'm using TidyPlates with the Knurl theme.

If you have more than one deathknight and aren't already doing so, I'd suggest they chain-deathgrip the frost patch to drop it as far north as possible, to make the angle easier for you. We've only got one DK so sometimes patch position hasn't been perfect, but the pulls where she got the patch further north felt a lot more secure than the ones which were more south.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Blitzago » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:27 am

If im at anub, looking back to where we start when buffing, I will Shield of the rightous the one close to me on my left, hand of reckoning the farther left one, hand of freedom myself, and then Righteous defense the other 2, although I usually have MD's from a rogue and hunter on those, and I use holy wrath to make sure none are hitting my back, as we are using a warlock with shadowfury inturupting the stuns.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Treck » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:00 am

I found a reliable and good way to pick upp the adds without any MDs/Tricks on our kill.

We try and tank the boss pretty far into the room and a bit to the left (looking at anub pre fight), almost so the MT is tanking in the wall.
Gives me a few more sec with the adds, but mostly the right angle when they are running to the healers.

I run out a bit, HoR/exo/avenger on one (usually avenger so it slows the closest one, so they all reach me at the same time)
Then i put consecration and RD taunts the other 3, once they all reach me i Holy Wrath them for snap aggro and to give me some time, then i use Hammer on one with the glyph hitting all 4, and then while they are still stunned, i jump in under the boss making the adds rush for me positioning them pretty good each time, i tried running with the adds, but it sometimes resulted in them overunning me when i decided to stop, thus hitting me from behind once in a while :S.

This uses one DR "charge" on the adds making other stunns not as effective, while we did have all 4 shadowstriking 2 ppl in the start of the fight when we actually killed him, its not the DR fault, stunning them on the cast will interrupt it even if the stunn is 0.1sec. You might need a bit more focused and fast Aoe (esp in P3) so they do die before others spawn (so you can run out and get them).

This worked a lot better than relying on MDs/tricks, standing waiting for the addds to come to me.
Another guild on the server who got the kill an hour later, said we "cheated" brining 3 rogues for Tricks, since they only used 2 xD (prolly just pissed off since they have been on anub for 6-7 weeks, while that was our 2nd week, so about 70 tries on anub in total.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Neara » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:31 am

Great input, thanks a lot. I think i can get something to work with the info given here.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby fafhrd » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:17 pm

Explosive Shot doesn't work for MDing properly and never really has. Have them use other shots (auto, aimed, arcane, steady, initial applications of serpent sting and black arrow) for MD. I'm MM so don't have to deal with ES being broken with MD, but Survival has enough alternative shots to MD as well. Also make sure they're watching how many charges of MD they have when they fire (a power aura is really handy for this IMO) and aren't MDing while having shots in the air aimed at Abub.

I posted a bit in response to a similar question at http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t69155-crus ... ost1450584 and there are some replies that might be relevant but to summarize:

- 2 hunters MDing 1 person is too much of a pain in the ass to be worthwhile till 3.3 hits
- 1 hunter can MD 2 targets just fine currently. 1 hunter can MD 3 targets too, but it's unreliable and a pain in the ass
- make sure you're using MD charges on what you think you are, if you don't pay attention you'll waste them and pull aggro. The biggest thing to watch is stray autoshots, so if you can't time them, start moving before you MD and MD after your autos have landed (and don't let extras land on the first add if you're going to be MDing a 2nd or 3rd one).
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby maurok » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:36 pm

My guild is starting to progress on ToGC now, I think we'll get into anub in about 2~3weeks, and I'm the only shield tank around... so I'm already gathering some gears.

I assembled an set at rawr, using agi/def elixirs, agi food, common 25m raid buffs (improved wild, horns, kings, stoneskin...)
these are the stats Rawr gave me against a lvl 82 foe: IMAGE

So I'm passively block capped, 3723 BV (with libram up), 30395 armor and almost 60% avoidance.

is it enough for single tank the adds?
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Radience » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:04 am

Signet of the Last Defender from Zul'Aman is quite good and easily obtainable option also.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Belloc » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:31 am

Radience wrote:Signet of the Last Defender from Zul'Aman is quite good and easily obtainable option also.

oh my god....

and I destroyed mine! :( :( :(
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby repent » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:18 am

Neara,
I see a few people have already responded to your posts with similar advice. I read a bunch of different posts for over a month suggesting ways of dealing with problems from the adds. We initially went with 2 add tanks, but the adds werent dying fast enough, and life leech became a problem with the extra tank and reduced raid dps.

1. Try a SoC spec, remove vindication, have a warrior demo, pick up 2 in conviction, 1 in SoC and 3 in Crusader.

The problems you indicate were all so close to mine, that I wanted to outline a couple of things just to highlight what others said. First off, 1 rogue and 1 hunter, although not mandatory, are presumed in this response. As a starting point, when I rushed the adds, I died. When I staid on the ice with 1 hunter and 1 rogue (Hunter MDed back 2, rogue used tricks add, and I taunted/judged the one on my right close. Something would always go wrong with one add, it would either be caught by the melee/boss tank, kill a healer, etc. During the second week of attempts, I tried leaving the ice, but the adds just wasted me. The next set of attempts I staid on the ice, we went with 2 rogues FoK and a single hunter, and we had no real problems with that, mostly had to learn healing for penetrating cold. The next week we only had 1 rogue, so I had no choice but to leave the ice to try and pick up the adds again. It was a mix of me dying, and the hunter/add behavior you were discussing in your post. The next night a different hunter came in and had absolutely no problem redirecting the back 2.

1. Hunter issue:
For whatever reason our hunter found that it was best to break off attacking Anub for 1 sec before the MD to make sure whatever weird mechanic was happening, didnt happen. Next was to make sure that a MDed shot wasnt followed up by an auto shot. (MM hunter)

2. Tank death:
Once the hunter issue worked itself out, I discovered that the 2 far adds would come to me no matter what basically, with the hunter and the Foking rogue. I Don't actually have to be off the ice to hold agro on them. I RD taunt the close right one, followed by a single taunt if that doesnt pull him (It doesn't always work) followed by a judgment. Next I AS the close one on the other side, drop a conc on the edge of the ice that the rear adds will follow through and first sit in, and then back peddle into the ice (generally with freedom- have a ret freedom you as you approach the ice.) If AS misses, I have to Shor close right mob, so I blow pally shield wall and assume I'm gonna take alot more damage, HoTR the group and backpeddle in. However, most of the time Im able to make the ice before the rear mobs come in, and that significantly reduces overall damage taken.

One of the things that I found that helped, ironically, was letting the close right mob hit me in the back while picking up the other three. I found that it caused the right amount of healers to switch to me so that I survive the placement of adds. Other things, make sure after the shadow strike goes off to HoJ one of the adds, and use your holy wrath (if up) when anub burrows. Make sure your trinket is procced before/during the pull as well.

As an aside, I found this kill to be something of a downer, it makes it too easy for people to second guess each other.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Arianne » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:11 pm

So the biggest problem that we have been having with a 2 tank strat (one add tank) is the 2nd add spawn in the 2nd phase 1 - it seems like the adds shadow strike AS SOON AS they get to the ice patch and before they get really near any of the DPSers. Does anyone have any tips on consistently getting that one or is it just a 'L2P' issue? Is there a way to get the shadow strike timer to show up bigger than the other timers?
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Aubade » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:14 pm

Arianne wrote:So the biggest problem that we have been having with a 2 tank strat (one add tank) is the 2nd add spawn in the 2nd phase 1 - it seems like the adds shadow strike AS SOON AS they get to the ice patch and before they get really near any of the DPSers. Does anyone have any tips on consistently getting that one or is it just a 'L2P' issue? Is there a way to get the shadow strike timer to show up bigger than the other timers?


Hmm, It shouldn't be an issue If you use avenger's Shield instead of Wrath in this situation so they keep moving towards you while silenced. I haven't seen it happen to us but it doesn't seem like it'd be an issue if you're moving off the ice to pick them up
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Arianne » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:35 pm

Well, I'm picking up two of the adds myself. I use AS on the first one and then HoR on the second to pick up my two. I get them on the frost patch and then the shadow strike timer is up. I guess I just need to pay more attention to the shadow strike timer rather than moving
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Aubade » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:34 am

Arianne wrote:Well, I'm picking up two of the adds myself. I use AS on the first one and then HoR on the second to pick up my two. I get them on the frost patch and then the shadow strike timer is up. I guess I just need to pay more attention to the shadow strike timer rather than moving


I assume you're picking up both on one side, something I do is stand outside the ice about 5 yards and get ready for spawn, as soon as the spawn happens I target the closest one and cast exorsim, as soon as Exo goes off, target 2nd and HoR. Save your AS for a silence in case your wrath misses.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Rhiannon » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:38 am

Arianne wrote:Well, I'm picking up two of the adds myself. I use AS on the first one and then HoR on the second to pick up my two. I get them on the frost patch and then the shadow strike timer is up. I guess I just need to pay more attention to the shadow strike timer rather than moving


Mm, it's quite tight but there ought to be enough time unless they get slowed by something. You're only dropping frost patches when they're needed and don't have any hunter traps dropped too late in each submerge phase that could still be up when the burrowers pop right?
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