Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

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Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:59 am

Hai guys, it's your not-so-favourite Paladin once again.

After (finally <.<) killing Anub 25 heroic, and after what, 20+ pages of discussion on the topic below, it's time to sum up all the infos in a useful guide.

This guide will be about add tanking, since honestly, tanking the boss is probably the easiest and most boring thing in this encounter and doesn't really require any special gear or knowledge.

As some of you will know, there are two possible viable strategies for this fight, one uses only one add-tank, and the other one uses two add tanks. This guide will cover both strategies. We used the 2 add tank one, since i didn't have sufficient gear for the single tank one, but if you do, feel free to try.

Right, let's start.



The basis
Alright, the fight itself is quite simple to understand. There will be 4 Nerubian Burrowers spawning at regular intervals of 45 seconds, two per side. The main threats from those adds are the following:
  • Spider Frenzy: This aura has 12 yards radius, which is about the hitbox of Anub'Arak to give a idea, or a Consecration and half if you prefer. The result of this aura is a extremely quick attack speed if too many of those get too close, and a very quick cast of Shadowstrike.
  • Shadow Strike: Casted every 30 seconds on a reliable timer, will oneshot the furthest person away from the burrower if not interrupt. Notice that it's always cast on the furthest person.
  • Submerge: The Burrower will submerge and become untargettable, and heal back. In order to prevent this, the adds are tanked on the Ice patches.
  • Expose Weakness: This will be stacked on the tank and is the main reason for which a block tank will be used. Stacks up to 9 for 225% damage increase.
Those are the mobs which you will be tanking. As you can notice, you have to tank those on the ice. The Submerge ability won't be cast until 20ish seconds after they spawn, so you got all the time to bring them there.
Notice that while you and the adds are on the ice, you will be affected by Permafrost, and you will definitively notice a 80% slow; however, you can use Hand of Freedom to move freely on the ice.
I'll now dedicate a few paragraph to show how to deal with each ability.

Spider Frenzy and positioning
As stated above, in Heroic 25 men, there will be 4 adds spawning. 4 adds close to each other with this aura will attack extremely quick and their casts will be 1 second (down from 8 ), or 1.4 if Mind Numbing Poison is up. For this reason, most guilds tend to prefer the 2 add-tank strategy to the single tank one. The single tank one requires a bit more effort and gearing to be pulled off.
If you are using the Single add tank strategy you don't really deal with this ability, you just tank all four of them on top of an ice patch. You will have to make sure to have all four of them in front of you, since if even one gets behind you, you'll start taking 30k DPS from that add.
If you are using the Double add tank strategy the positioning is a bit different and achieved with the help of at least one, and generally two Death Knights. Basically, they will death grip and kill two patches of ice on the two sides of Anub'Arak. As a result, you will have a situation like the following: (yes i suck at Paint)
Image
The two tanks should tank 2 adds each on top of the assigned patch of ice. The best placement is to tank them on top of the boss' legs, since they are about at exactly 13 yds from each other, making the adds in range for most of the AoE from the DPS, but not in range for stacking Spider Frenzy. Those two pics taken from a random attempt on Anub should probably give you a better idea then my pro Paint skills ;)
http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv11 ... 204722.jpg
http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv11 ... 200054.jpg
It may take a bit of practice to pull that off consistently but well, progress is also made of wiping i suppose.

Shadow Strike and Interrupts
The way to deal with Shadow Strike is very similar between the two tactics. In both cases, i'd recommend having a Ret paladin assigned to help with this.
Shadow Strike is a 8 seconds cast: due to Spider Frenzy, if you are using the double add tank strategy, it will have 4 seconds cast, if you are using the single add tank strategy, it will be a 1 seconds cast. The tool you will use for interrupting is Holy Wrath glyphed.
The reason is that this cast is on a reliable timer: if the add is Silenced or Stunned when Anub sends the "signal" to use Shadow Strike, it will skip the cast and go on cooldown anyway. So the main idea is having them silenced or stunned when the cast comes.
In order to have a very reliable timer, i'd recommend using Deus Vox Encounters, since DBM timer tends to screw up when a Stun is used. When you see the timer on 1 seconds, either use Holy Wrath or Avenger Shield (the shield only with the double add tank strategy). Now, at the start of this section i said to have a Retribution Paladin assisting, you may wonder why; the reason is simple: "miss". The miss chance on a lvl 82 mob is 6%, this means you have to cover this with gear. Unless you got a very good shadowpriest applying Misery to all adds and possibly a Draenei in the group, you will hardly have this much in block tanking gear. A retribution paladin however will be hitcapped vs bosses, so he will have 100% hit on his Holy Wrath. The reason for the Glyph is that the cooldown of both Shadowstrike and Holy Wrath is 30 seconds, thus due to latency and whatnot, you may have Holy Wrath still on 1-2 sec CD when the cast comes: this may not be important in double add tank strategy but can lead to a wipe in the single tank one. The Glyph of Holy Wrath will make sure Holy Wrath is up when needed, for a minimal loss in DPS for the Ret (he'll likely sub Glyph of Exorcism or Judgement for it).
It's absolutely important that noone else ever uses a Stun (or Silence) on the adds: add on DR when Shadowstrike cast = GG.

Expose Weakness and why Block is overpowered
Right, the title pretty much says it already: as you might imagine, the way to counter this ability is stacking block. This is due to the way the damage multiplier is applied... it comes AFTER the block. Making some math to show this more properly.
The adds hit for about 5k unmitigated. Assuming you got 4k block value, this will result in a 1k hit (4k blocked).
Now let's add the debuff: they would be hitting for about 15k unmitigated... however, after block, they will only hit by 3k hit (4k blocked)! You see what i did there? Only the unblocked damage got multiplied. This means you can negate up to 100% damage with blocks, and that's probably the main reason for which you are tanking adds as well.
The following section will be dedicated to the gear available: if you are using the double add tank strategy, then you just need the usual 101.6% with Holy Shield up. If you are using the single add tank one however, you will need passive 101.6%, since they will eat your Holy Shield charges in a couple seconds.

Glyph and Flask Selection
First of all, absolutely don't use Flask of Stoneblood: it will generally deal no good and will only increase the healing done to the boss in phase 3. I'd also suggest on that matter to click off Fortitude and Commanding Shout when phase 3 starts.
The best flask options are Lesser Flask of Resistance to reduce the Swarm and Piercing Cold damage, or alternatively Flask of the North in its Strength flavour to increase block value. If neither of the above is an option, then use Flask of Endless Rage for additional threat.
If you are using the single add-tank strategy and you got some money to spend (or help from gbank :D) then your best choice is using Elixir of Mightly Agility + Elixir of Mightly Defense for about 0.6% dodge from the first and 0.36% dodge/parry/block/miss from the second: that equals to 2.04% extra combined avoidance.
Glyph wise, we don't have that many choices.
  • Glyph of Righteous Defense is probably the most important one since it will make sure you always hit the adds with taunt (expecially useful if solotanking them since you can pick them all with two taunts).
  • Glyph of Holy Wrath in case you are supposed to help with interrupts.
  • Glyph of Divine Plea is not *that* important since it's not possible to keep 100% uptime (though it will be close to that if you play well) but still very welcome.
  • Glyph of Salvation in case you want an additional cooldown though not suggested
  • Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous is an excellent choice if you are using the single add-tank strategy
I personally used the first three, but i suppose the fourth is an option.

Block Gear
This section will show all the block gear you can find (or well, the one i managed to find on wowhead ;) )
If you are doing the double add tanking strategy, you should be fine with just spamming Block Value everywhere. For the single add tank, you will have to choose gear carefully to get that 101.6% with raidbuffs (hence like 98% without) and still maintain over 3000 block in order to mitigate sufficient damage. I'm including easily attainable blue items if you are really desperate to get more block in that slot. Remember that stamina is not important, actually the less HP you got the better.
P.s. Alliance forgive me if i link Horde items ;)

HeadNeckShouldersCloakChestWristHandsWaistLegsFeetRingsTrinketsRegarding weapon and shield, there's not much choice. For the weapon pick the one with the highest defence you got (with Blood Draining being the best enchant, or Exceptional Agility if you are trying to reach the 101.6%). For the shield, you should just use the one with the highest Block Value you got. Additional Block rating is welcome, but you should choose rating over value only if you have problems reaching 101.6%. Also don't forget the good old Shield block enchant from TBC for the passive 101.6%.
For gemming and enchanting, you will want Defense or Agility everywhere it is possible and armor where it isn't. Don't forget to spam defense gems if you are going for the passive 101.6%.
Finally, as librams, you got two choices. The best choice is obviously Libram of the Sacred Shield, considering it's like 600 extra block value. However, if you are going for 101.8% and are missing a few %, you may consider using Libram of Defiance. Though, i'd still rather take 600 extra block and risk that 3%... i mean, we got Ardent Defender for a reason don't we.



Riiight... what did i forget this time? Wtb inputs about what i can add.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Anorian » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:14 am

quite a nice post, stuck on anub atm so :)

have you thought of maybe using shadowfury as secondary, warlocks will surely be capped as well
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:22 am

All locks should be Demonology for this so Shadowfury was not an option :)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Anorian » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:37 am

Worldie wrote:All locks should be Demonology for this so Shadowfury was not an option :)

demo because of immolation aura? got an alt lock myself and i thought destro was the highest dps build atm
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:39 am

Demo AoE is better than Destru. Pretty much that. Half of our people had wierd specs with unusual points just for the sake of this fight.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Dem » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:54 am

It's worth considering Seal of Command for add tanking. Snap threat, higher damage and better pick up as single attacks such as ShoR hit 3 targets.

For single add tanking, glyph for Hammer (hits 4 adds). Consider Taunt Glyph.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:00 am

Good point, i'll add a Glyph section later when i'm back home.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby guillex » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:02 am

Ninja sticky? Uhm...
Póg mo thóin
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:21 am

guillex wrote:Ninja sticky? Uhm...

Yup ^^
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby fafhrd » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:22 am

Since you didn't say much about the single tanking strat, I can add a few things we've noticed - note I haven't killed him yet, but have come very close (5% wipes T_T). People who've been farming him can hopefully correct mistakes below (which might get me my last 5%, so feel free).

A single add tanks means you have an unhittable tank. While this is really cool, it doesn't make add-tanking the cakewalk you might think for 3 main reasons, all of which you'll have to make strats to deal with if you go this way:

- positioning: if at any point adds are in range of each other and behind the tank, the tank will explode. This restricts the position of the frost patch you're tanking adds on somewhat, since if it's not far enough away from all 4 spawn points, the adds come in at a wide enough angle that keeping them in front of the tank is an issue. We had to move the patch all the way back to where anub is standing before you engage him. Healers need to be positioned such that this sharp approach angle is maintained, since the adds will be heading for healers until tricks/MDs go up. The picky positioning of this patch also means you can get really boned if someone breaks it accidentally during a kite phase - even though you have an extra frost orb to use with this strat, you then need to bring it down in a good spot again, or play games like a hunter pulling aggro on several adds to group them up, then feigning to send them to the tank at a particular angle. We still used up to 2 DKs for exact frost positioning of the initial and kiting patches.

- pickup: tank needs to pick up all 4 adds and do so without letting them hit his back while frenzied. This will probably mean chaining an MD and multiple tricks on the tank every add spawn, which hurts raid DPS somewhat - rogues may need to run out to tricks adds on the way in (ours currently don't and just FoK as the adds come in range, which is slightly less reliable) and hunters need to stop DPS to avoid wasting the 3 MD charges.

- threat: the tank needs to not lose threat on any of 4 targets. This is generally not hard if people don't have itchy AoE fingers, but any screwups like a mage pulling aggro then invising can be deadly since even if the tank gets the mob back, it can end up behind him and kill him very very quickly, or slightly out of position and not in range for the pre-emptive interrupt, leading to a shadowstrike death

- interrupts: given the quadstacked haste buff, you pretty much need to do pre-emptive silences/stuns instead of reactive interrupts/stuns. This is also not a big deal, but your stunners need to be on the ball and you need to find a reliable timer for the cast, which at least initially has been a harder task than you might think.

- resists: we haven't tried this yet, but I've seen convincing posts put forward that with 2 add tanks, the gear requirements are lax enough to squeeze some NR enchants onto the add tanks, which cuts down P3 anub healing and tank healing quite a bit. With 1 add tank his gear/enchants probably don't leave much room for NR.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Salamandra » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:32 am

Just two things:

- I used to have a problem with one (usually the closest one on the left, with me picking up myself only the ones on the right) add getting behind me and found that it got significantly better if I Holy Wrathed them (with a warlock interrupting Shadow Strike) as they got close enough to me so that it would allow time for the ice patch debuff to apply so they don't run behind me.

- Pretty sure it's 101.6%, not 101.8%.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Kaienn » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:46 am

Salamandra wrote:Just two things:

- I used to have a problem with one (usually the closest one on the left, with me picking up myself only the ones on the right) add getting behind me and found that it got significantly better if I Holy Wrathed them (with a warlock interrupting Shadow Strike) as they got close enough to me so that it would allow time for the ice patch debuff to apply so they don't run behind me.

- Pretty sure it's 101.6%, not 101.8%.


.2 per level for Dodge, Parry and Block, totaling to .6%.

102.4 - .6 = 101.8
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby cryst » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:25 pm

Kaienn wrote:
Salamandra wrote:Just two things:

- I used to have a problem with one (usually the closest one on the left, with me picking up myself only the ones on the right) add getting behind me and found that it got significantly better if I Holy Wrathed them (with a warlock interrupting Shadow Strike) as they got close enough to me so that it would allow time for the ice patch debuff to apply so they don't run behind me.

- Pretty sure it's 101.6%, not 101.8%.


.2 per level for Dodge, Parry and Block, totaling to .6%.

102.4 - .6 = 101.8


Is it not 0.2% per level for Dodge, Parry, Block, and Miss?

lv80 - 100%
lv81 - 100.8%
lv82 - 101.6%
lv83 - 102.4%
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Kihra » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:37 pm

The two preferred strats for this fight seem to be a single unhittable add tank on one frost patch, or two add tanks with the adds spread to two patches.

We were actually quite successful with an approach that mixed these two strats. We used two unhittable add tanks instead of one. Everything was done just like the single add tank strat (only 1 patch), but each tank got two adds each. The adds were NOT spread apart, but were stacked on top of one another just like the single add tank strat.

What's nice about this strat is that you don't have to worry about having sufficient tricks/misdirects in your raid (at the moment we only have one reliable rogue in our raids), AOE can open up pretty early, it's really easy for the add tanks to pick up just two adds each, you have built-in redundancy if one of the add tanks dies, and you can still burn the adds down really fast since they aren't spread apart.

The only real disadvantage is that the fight takes longer, but the DPS requirement on this fight isn't particularly steep anyway.
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Re: Tanking Anub'Arak heroic adds

Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:21 pm

cryst wrote:
Is it not 0.2% per level for Dodge, Parry, Block, and Miss?

lv80 - 100%
lv81 - 100.8%
lv82 - 101.6%
lv83 - 102.4%

That is indeed correct *writes down on notepad*
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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