Sigh Heroic FC troubles

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Sigh Heroic FC troubles

Postby elfjorc » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:44 pm

I just ..... don't know. I don't think the fight is at problem, but twice now we've come up against the combination of Ret Pally, Arms Warrior, Lock and Shadow Priest, and we just cannot seem to move past that. We just wiped like 12 times tonight and called it since we weren't making progress, but whether we go after the Warrior, the Resto Shaman, whatever, we just cannot seem to get 1 of them dead without 3 of us being dead.

I guess part of the problem is that we're running 5 melee (we don't really have a choice, we struggle to get 10-mans going as it is right now since everyone's quitting), and the moment the Ret Pally saunters over by the melee it just falls apart, either the kill target doesn't die or people die, or the Ret Pally catches up to a healer and they aren't moving away so they die or other people die because they're not getting healed through dots, etc, it's a complete mess.

The full group was
Ret Pally
Arms Warrior
Lock
Shadow Priest
Resto Druid
Resto Shaman

Our group was:
Feral Druid
Feral Druid
Ret Pally
Rogue
Ele/Resto Shammy
Holy Pally
Holy Priest
Me (Ret/Prot)
Lock
Hunter (Surv)

Any thoughts on what might be going wrong in our approach. We oneshot Valks last time, and we looked at Anub enough to be able to go in and 2-3 shot him, but getting stonewalled at FC sucks, and is just getting frustrating.
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Re: Sigh Heroic FC troubles

Postby ydraw » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:14 pm

I would get your ferals to respec boomkin and simply rotate roots/cyclone on the melee.

They only need enough gear to have hit cap and enough intellect to cast their spells. They should have some level 80 blues in the bank at least.

Without any kind or CC or snares at all you aren't going to beat FC heroic. Boomkins are the best way to control the melee after a DK.
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Re: Sigh Heroic FC troubles

Postby Magnusharkov » Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:32 pm

I would have thought the best strat would be something like:

Get your lock to alternate fear/banish on the druid. Shove your rogue on the shaman and get him to kill totems while he is there.

Full dps nuke on the warrior, then the ret paladin. Make sure you group is on the ball with cleanses/dispels. After the 2 melee are down you shouldn't be facing anything that can gib you so I'd then go Druid->Shaman->Priest->Lock.
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Re: Sigh Heroic FC troubles

Postby fafhrd » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:43 pm

ydraw wrote:I would get your ferals to respec boomkin and simply rotate roots/cyclone on the melee.

They only need enough gear to have hit cap and enough intellect to cast their spells. They should have some level 80 blues in the bank at least.

Without any kind or CC or snares at all you aren't going to beat FC heroic. Boomkins are the best way to control the melee after a DK.


Ferals can cyclone better than boomkin can (i.e instantly) it just takes a bit of thinking ahead to do it. I think they can instant root with the same talent too - no need to make them respec and gear badly just for roots and cyclones.
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Re: Sigh Heroic FC troubles

Postby elfjorc » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:53 pm

fafhrd wrote:
ydraw wrote:I would get your ferals to respec boomkin and simply rotate roots/cyclone on the melee.

They only need enough gear to have hit cap and enough intellect to cast their spells. They should have some level 80 blues in the bank at least.

Without any kind or CC or snares at all you aren't going to beat FC heroic. Boomkins are the best way to control the melee after a DK.


Ferals can cyclone better than boomkin can (i.e instantly) it just takes a bit of thinking ahead to do it. I think they can instant root with the same talent too - no need to make them respec and gear badly just for roots and cyclones.


It needs them to generate combo points and use a finisher to do it, then shifts out and shift back and repeat, we just had one of them stay out of Kitty and keep alternating roots and cyclones on the Ret as much as we can, with hexes, blinds and repentances to cover the gaps. It seemed to go fine, but we kept losing a healer to dots + Intercept+MS, or melee to Warrior or Lock, the massive clumping with all the melee definitely didn't seem to help, but our choices for groups aren't ideal.

We started off trying to full nuke the Warrior down and keep the Ret busy, then switched to Shaman burn, I think the previous time we tried it like 4 weeks ago (we don't get 10-mans going very often due to said quitting) we went for Ret burn, just couldn't consistently stay get through with everyone alive it seemed.

Sad part is the time we did win, we just oneshot the encounter and blitz'd through the Warrior in like 10 seconds, but that time we had an Arcane Mage and a Boomkin and an Arms Warrior on our side and so on, and things just melted.

I do think next time if we come up against this kind of group again I'm either going to use my DK or my Hunter just to make it easier on people to stay away from things that will kill them. Parking my DK on the Warrior would probably help a lot if we Banish/Feared the Tree and burned the Shammy.
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Re: Sigh Heroic FC troubles

Postby Ruull » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:39 am

elfjorc wrote:I just ..... don't know. I don't think the fight is at problem, but twice now we've come up against the combination of Ret Pally, Arms Warrior, Lock and Shadow Priest, and we just cannot seem to move past that. We just wiped like 12 times tonight and called it since we weren't making progress, but whether we go after the Warrior, the Resto Shaman, whatever, we just cannot seem to get 1 of them dead without 3 of us being dead.

I guess part of the problem is that we're running 5 melee (we don't really have a choice, we struggle to get 10-mans going as it is right now since everyone's quitting), and the moment the Ret Pally saunters over by the melee it just falls apart, either the kill target doesn't die or people die, or the Ret Pally catches up to a healer and they aren't moving away so they die or other people die because they're not getting healed through dots, etc, it's a complete mess.

The full group was
Ret Pally
Arms Warrior
Lock
Shadow Priest
Resto Druid
Resto Shaman

Our group was:
Feral Druid
Feral Druid
Ret Pally
Rogue
Ele/Resto Shammy
Holy Pally
Holy Priest
Me (Ret/Prot)
Lock
Hunter (Surv)

Any thoughts on what might be going wrong in our approach. We oneshot Valks last time, and we looked at Anub enough to be able to go in and 2-3 shot him, but getting stonewalled at FC sucks, and is just getting frustrating.


Kill order I would use:

Resto shaman
Ret paly
Shadow Priest
Druid
Lock
Warrior

Start off with your priest running in when they're engaged and fearing (this should get them to trinket). Blow hero and full out burn the shaman, have one of your druids cyclone the druid until its on DR then have the hunter scatter/trap/wryven sting him. Make sure that your ele shaman is chain purging him and someone is hitting the healing stream/windfury totems. That should kill off the shaman.

For the ret with the shaman down you shouldn't have too much trouble killing him. Make sure your priest is ready to mass dispel the bubble. Once again keep the same cc train on the druid and purge any hots he gets from the druid (shouldn't be too many).

After you get the first two down get rid of the shadow priest (again try to keep the druid as locked down as possible).

If you get through those killing the rest should be a non issue. If it turns out you're having a lot of trouble on the CC you may wanna kill the druid 3rd rather than the shadow priest.

That's how I've dealt with this comp before, basically if you get over the hump of killing the resto/ret you'll win.
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Re: Sigh Heroic FC troubles

Postby spiky_porcupine » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:08 pm

You can try a few different things, but these things must be done:

- Priest mass dispel bloodlust ASAP.
- Shaman dispel hots, ES, riptide ASAP
- Healing debuff on kill target at all times.
- Holy Pally as primary healer
- One of the ret as primary dot dispeller (whoever’s not as geared)


I would recommend the following as well that works for my guild:

- Feral druids cc melee (bash, charge, pounce, maim, root, cyclone). They also don’t die as fast if melee turns around to hit them. Can kill totems during a cc too.
- Lock cc Tree, Rogue interrupt shaman
- Hunter, elemental shaman, and 1 ret pally kill lock first, followed by shadow priest, resto shaman, enh shaman, arms warrior, tree last
- Hunter drop frost trap for people to kite in
- 2nd ret pally focus on dispelling debuffs, freedom, bop until both lock & priests are dead
- All pally keep sacred shield on people who die first (lock & rogue priority)

Also make sure they are running away when a melee NPC is targeting them… ASAP. Even if that is the kill target. Killing lock & SP first because the debuffs do a lot of damage. And when both are dead, you don’t have to worry about dots or enemy dispels on your ccs. Save blind & repentance for the shaman so that you can continue ccing the shaman if your rogue gets chased.

If you have trouble with the NPC all grouped up, have your priest fear them all to separate them or your elemental shaman to thundershock them away from each other.
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Re: Sigh Heroic FC troubles

Postby elfjorc » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:45 am

Came up against the same group this week, but our Rogue wasn't there (had a second Ret Pally instead. Side QQ - 5 people, 3 of them officers, signing up and no-showing every time gets old fast).

I used my Hunter alt with a Chimaera pet for both Aimed Shot debuff and Froststorm Breath and that pretty much solved all the dying. Thanks guys. Finally cleared and Tribute to Skill too, took a few wipes to decide to have a Shammy use his Rogue alt for Wound Poison because Anub just wasn't dying fast enough in phase 3 without it lol. Mad Skill time.
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Re: Sigh Heroic FC troubles

Postby Invisusira » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:57 am

HUGE SPOILER:

3 heal it and have one of the healers just cleanse EVERY thing. (Warbal (disc) typically rolls shields and spams cleanse, ever since we started doing that we've never wiped to FC.)

Our makeup typically has 3 healers and both myself and the offtank remaining prot.
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Re: Sigh Heroic FC troubles

Postby Salamandra » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:20 am

Our strategy the last 3 weeks (getting Insanity every time) has been use 3 healers and zerg the targets in order of how dangerous they are (Warrior>Rogue>Ret>DK>Hunter) and only go after the healers once they're incapable of killing anyone. Don't even spare people to interrupt the healers, with 50% healing reduction they can easily be killed while being healed.
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