[25 Heroic] Anub'arak

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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Treck » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:06 pm

Aubade wrote:Well in my opinion the one tank strat isn't stable. There's a chance one or two gets behind you and you're done, there's a chance you lose aggro trying to take all 4 at once, or there's a chance you miss a strike (alot easier to miss with 4 adds!)
The two tank strat is extremely reliable and just easier in my opinion. I pick up my first add with exo, target the other and use HoR.

Well, its been going pretty good imo using 1addtank strat, but its stable enough for me to wanna try insanity for it idd.
Misses are usually not a problem tho (RD glyph +0 hitrating) there is still a chance. HoR seems to sometimes miss the taunt, but the actual dmg goes through, thus still making it focus me.
If they ever hit me, chances are it will be a block thus holy shield dmg, and threat is nolonger an issue, sometimes however they start moving really really slow reaching the frostpatch, but not me, giving dpsers (and healers) a few extra sec to overaggro.
Shadow strikes arnt really a problem with Holy wrath usage, a Shadowstrike going through almost never happends.
Were reaching Anub with 47tries left or so, so should have a good ammount of tries this week on it.
If we should go to the 2tank strat (when the other tank is geared for it and we actually have a 3rd tank in the guild) is it possible using one frostpatch, but tanking 2 each? Yes, they will get the buffs like the 1tank strat, but the dmg devided on 2 tanks, having fully unhittable gear. Would it be worse by spreading them, thus giving the healers more targets to heal? or could it be easier?
The tact ive tried before with 2addtanks tanked at each side isnt to complicated and the gear of the tanks isnt much of an issue eather, but the problem seemed to be to get all adds in aoerange without giving the other side buffs. Is there a "failsafe" way to do this? or is it just training?
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Valoel » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:35 am

Finally got the kill... took us so long cos of guild disappearances from key members, main tank having his internet dying and main healer's computers blowing up :S.

Anyway we used the 2 offtank strat. Me and a warrior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNbQE--IfeE

yea as posted by some people my rotation for picking up the adds was exorcism+judgement on the nearest add that spawned, hand of reckoning the far one when it was in range, pop hand of freedom, hammer of righteousness both of them, then move into position. then usual threat rotation when i wasnt panicked ;). we had a ret pali holy wrath when dbm timer had 1 sec remaining for shadow strike but i also did it as well just in case. i think the warrior did shockwave.

hope this helps.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Belloc » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:44 am

Valoel wrote:Finally got the kill... took us so long cos of guild disappearances from key members, main tank having his internet dying and main healer's computers blowing up :S.

Anyway we used the 2 offtank strat. Me and a warrior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNbQE--IfeE

yea as posted by some people my rotation for picking up the adds was exorcism+judgement on the nearest add that spawned, hand of reckoning the far one when it was in range, pop hand of freedom, hammer of righteousness both of them, then move into position. then usual threat rotation when i wasnt panicked ;). we had a ret pali holy wrath when dbm timer had 1 sec remaining for shadow strike but i also did it as well just in case. i think the warrior did shockwave.

hope this helps.


I'm both happy and sad that you guys got the kill. Happy because, lol, you're my favorite guild on the server! Sad because, lol, I feel like we're finally able to actually challenge you.

May Icecrown be a race!
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Valoel » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:05 pm

:) were u reading our guild chat a few minutes ago, people were saying they wish there was more competition on Azgalor. Hope u guys pwn us on some bosses. Actually dont cos then our raid leader will turn into a crazy slave driver in vent :).
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Valoel » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:11 pm

Treck wrote:
Aubade wrote:Is there a "failsafe" way to do this? or is it just training?


just a bit of training however if u look at the back off the boss, he has 2 pinkish wing flaps if each of the offtanks stand near it then the adds will/should be in aoe range and not buff each other.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Belloc » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:17 pm

Valoel wrote::) were u reading our guild chat a few minutes ago, people were saying they wish there was more competition on Azgalor. Hope u guys pwn us on some bosses. Actually dont cos then our raid leader will turn into a crazy slave driver in vent :).

I can tell you that everyone in Humility is super excited about giving you guys the hardest competition possible when Icecrown is released.

I don't want to sound too confident but I do think that we're damn near on even footing :)

Now if we could actually go in there and get some attempts on Anub. We've been too busy focusing on finishing our heroic Ulduar Raider achievements!
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Arkhen » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:17 pm

Any tips to prevent the massive healing aggro from holy paladins on p3? we are using 1 add tank and keep on dying sub 20% due to healers getting rape by adds
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Belloc » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:02 am

Your healers should be positioned so that the adds have to run through the boss to get to them. In doing so, they also run past your rogues.

Rogues + Tricks of the Trade = your healers won't get hit.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Petrus » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:05 am

Hopefully going to be doing this with the my new guild this weekend if the regular addstank can't show. With my passively unhittable gear set, I'll be around 3600 or so BV with raidbuffs and Libram up (my earlier post was not completely unhittable obviously and was actually talking about 10man /embarrassed). I actually ended up using Seventh Ring of the Tirisfalen from TK in the set instead of something like Fate's Clutch (which I don't actually have anyway) for the second ring. I have to swap a couple gems for epic versions but I figure with a defensive elixir (either agi or defense or perhaps both) I can get to 101.6 with raidbuffs and cruise with 3600 BV/4200 with Lavanthor's up.

The real question here is why Blizzard hasn't fixed the encounter to make block tanks less required.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Worldie » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:53 pm

Because there's no way Petrus.

If they reduce add damage to be healable on a druid / dk, then block tanks take 0 damage. If they remove the stupid block issue and make adds hit for same on all tanks, then they have to lower the damage and it gets trivialized.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Kishandra » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:30 pm

Worldie wrote:Because there's no way Petrus.

If they reduce add damage to be healable on a druid / dk, then block tanks take 0 damage. If they remove the stupid block issue and make adds hit for same on all tanks, then they have to lower the damage and it gets trivialized.


Make burrowers melee for 10k, remove the debuff. The frenzy stays.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby fafhrd » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:46 pm

Kishandra wrote:
Worldie wrote:Because there's no way Petrus.

If they reduce add damage to be healable on a druid / dk, then block tanks take 0 damage. If they remove the stupid block issue and make adds hit for same on all tanks, then they have to lower the damage and it gets trivialized.


Make burrowers melee for 10k, remove the debuff. The frenzy stays.


That doesn't sound like it'd make block tanks any less powerful though. 2 block tanks stacking BV to cap would be the preferred choice. The difference between block and non-block tanks wouldn't be as great as current, but you'd still use one over any other tank. A warrior would critical block something like 9k of that damage 60% of the time wouldn't he, with full BV?

And removing the debuff just means the anub tank will eventually start tanking the adds too once HP is high enough to survive adds while stunned from FreezingSlash. That'd be with ICC gear most likely though, so not really relevant.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Kishandra » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:15 pm

Frenzy stays, so the MT could probably take one at most. 4 adds together do something like 8-10 swings/second, so definitely not onetankable.

A warrior in full block/unhittable gear would have under 35k hp buffed, and I would be very, -very- surprised if they could come up with more than 3500 block value. Unhittable paladins pretty much cap out at 4k with a 500+ libram. 7k hits (sometimes down to 4k with critical block) on a 35k hp warrior with lesser avoidance vs 10k hits on a 50k avoidance bear or dk - that seems a pretty even balance imo. The non-block tanks would take more damage of course, but not by an incredibly large margin (probably 10-15% difference?), nor is the damage unhealable, nor would require farming for a specialized set.

Of course you could argue block tanks are preferable for any mob that provide rapid, small (10k-ish) hits in succession (which is the spirit of what the burrowers are trying to do) - but then doesn't Algalon fit that bill too? I'm fairly sure block tanks aren't preferred for Algalon. Just tweak that 10k number until it's dangerous enough that you'd prefer EH gear.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby fafhrd » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:46 pm

Kishandra wrote:Frenzy stays, so the MT could probably take one at most. 4 adds together do something like 8-10 swings/second, so definitely not onetankable.

A warrior in full block/unhittable gear would have under 35k hp buffed, and I would be very, -very- surprised if they could come up with more than 3500 block value. Unhittable paladins pretty much cap out at 4k with a 500+ libram. 7k hits (sometimes down to 4k with critical block) on a 35k hp warrior with lesser avoidance vs 10k hits on a 50k avoidance bear or dk - that seems a pretty even balance imo. The non-block tanks would take more damage of course, but not by an incredibly large margin (probably 10-15% difference?), nor is the damage unhealable, nor would require farming for a specialized set.

Of course you could argue block tanks are preferable for any mob that provide rapid, small (10k-ish) hits in succession (which is the spirit of what the burrowers are trying to do) - but then doesn't Algalon fit that bill too? I'm fairly sure block tanks aren't preferred for Algalon. Just tweak that 10k number until it's dangerous enough that you'd prefer EH gear.



Who said anything about the warrior needing to be unhittable? With 2 adds to tank he can hittable and still take much less damage than a non-block tank - remember that for 10s out of every wave he's unhittable even if he had 0% avoidance thanks to shield block, and has double his block value during this period too. Pallies tanking 2 adds are already unhittable passively thanks to just HS with massive block value too (i'm fairly sure I've seen some people here quoting over 4k in their hs-unhittable sets).

Yes, the change would kill the "1 unhittable block tank tanks 4 adds" strat, but that's already not the preferred strat for a lot of guilds anyway. It wouldn't hurt the 2 block tank strats, other than making the warriors in those strats make block value sets instead of unhittable sets (like the pallies already mostly do).

I'm under the impression that block tanks are somewhat preferred for Algalon, aren't they? And the 10k number can't be tweaked up much while still holding on to frenzy+multiple adds being part of the fight. On most fights it's not an issue because Gormok say can smack your tank 30k a swing fine so long as he hits slowly enough for healers to heal the tank to full after every swing - but with adds or bosses that hit 2-3 times a second, as soon as you start approaching enough base damage to make block value trivial, you also start approaching values where a bad avoidance streak means your tank takes more damage in a second than he has HP. 15k hits would be 45k damage from 3 unavoided hits, yet 15k is still low enough that 3-4k block is pretty significant. 20k hits would be 60k damage from 3 unavoided hits, all of which could land inside one second with 2 frenzied adds.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Wrathy » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:57 pm

fafhrd wrote:Who said anything about the warrior needing to be unhittable? With 2 adds to tank he can hittable and still take much less damage than a non-block tank - remember that for 10s out of every wave he's unhittable even if he had 0% avoidance thanks to shield block, and has double his block value during this period too. Pallies tanking 2 adds are already unhittable passively thanks to just HS with massive block value too (i'm fairly sure I've seen some people here quoting over 4k in their hs-unhittable sets).


If you are employing the two off tank strat with two permafrosts, you do not by any means need to be passively unhittable. Also, for my set that I wear when there are only two adds, I can pump up to 95% passive avoidance with 4500 block value (after libram of course). This negates all damage on 25 man hard mode.
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