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[25 Heroic] Anub'arak

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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby xarnen » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:38 pm

You're perfectly fine with a stam/nr focused gear set. Replace the usual stoneblood flask with lesser resistance. Trinkets, I'd go with The Black Heart and Glyph. He should barkskin on freeze, and it's really nice to have the 4pT9 for the 12sec bonus on barkskin.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Worldie » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:30 pm

Joanadark wrote:
a) hunters are usually quite a bit higher single-target DPS than other classes that are better AoE dps than hunters (unholy DKS come to mind) - reducing the time both classes do their best dps in order to increase the time the time both classes do their worst DPS isn't a net gain


What fafhrd said.

You DONT want stacked AOE classes. You want a balance of strong AOE and strong single target. Hunters represent very powerful single target for this fight, as do ret paladins. Our hunter is generally #1 on damage done to the boss in every kill.

There isn't some kind of massive race to kill the adds. There is little to no serious DPS check here. You merely want to have EFFICIENT DPS distribution, and having a balance between AOE and single target is the most efficient setup.

Saying that Hunters and locks are weak on this fight confuses me. Locks in particular can be incredible in either the AOE or the single target role. You absolutely want to have a demo lock in the raid anyway, and beyond that one demo lock additional locks can go affliction and spam seed off the boss or go destro and focus on single target.

For shadow priests, you always want to VT each add as they run in so that the first tick is happening basically right as they are brought together, and then Mind Sear until they die.
For p3, its easy to overestimate the healing requirement necessary to keep people up through leeching swarm. We found that speced imp VE our priests dots on the boss ALONE were enough heal their group through leeching swarm. This frees the priest to Mind Sear while he just lets his DoTs tick.



Buh, we have a mixed setup, our main "single target dps" are the ret pala, the enha shaman, the two demo locks, the hunter and the elemental shaman, all the rest of the raid is focused on the AoE. Also stronger AoE means also stronger damage on the boss since he is hit by the aoe.

We use the shadow priest to cover our healer group. The whole remaining of the raid is healed by Imp LotP and JoL.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Xequecal » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:13 pm

Joanadark wrote:If you want to reduce the damage intake and spike on your anub tank, they should gear for Armor, not stam.


Does armor work on Frost Slash at all? The people on EJ seem to think not.

FYI, if you're really committed to mix/maxing it is possible to hit the NR cap while still wearing full WotLK epic tank gear.

NR Totem: 130
Fur Lining - NR: 200
Lesser Flask of Resistance + Mixology: 292
Broiled Bloodfin: 300
Arcanum of Toxic Warding: 325
Enchant Cloak - Greater Nature Resistance: 345
Runed Ring of Binding - 375
Signified Ring of Binding - 400, which is the cap.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Treck » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:07 pm

Were doing the single addtank strat for 2 reasons.
Mainly we lack a decent 2nd tank, and we dont wanna lower the dps by having one of our best dpsers go tank.
This Seems to go quite well with the unhittable gearset im using, but theres a few spikes from time to time tho thats hitting for slightly to much imo, Is that the life of a single addtank? going from 100% to 30% 2-3times every now and then? or is there smth wrong?
Had one other problem, a healer overaggroing before the last adds reached me.
How i do it is like, HoR on one of the close adds, RD on the other 3 whos targetting the same healer, then shieldthrow on those 2 in the back (its jumping to both every time) and then a hammer on the 2 close to me. Since were using Holy Wrath as a SS interrupt, i cant use that for snap aggro, somewhere before the last 2 adds start hitting me, a healer gets aggro from an add (im not sure but im guessing its the one i hit only with HoR, it hitting for 2k isnt enough threat for long i guess, wtb instant Exo :( ).
My unhittable gear is basicly 3.7k buffed BV with 101,7% unhittability fully buffed.
Were doing good, and i feel like i wanna stick to the 1addtank strat, but would it be safer going with 2?
Reason we wiped in P3 was actually the Anubtank dying xD
But we had a few random deaths from me that shouldnt happen, ppl are doing insanity runs in 25man, so is there a way to avoid those random spikes? or just go with 2 addtanks?
Our Dps is fine to let a dps go tanking for it since were way ahead before the 3rd burrow.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby fafhrd » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:53 pm

Despite a lot of arguing back and forth about it and experimenting with it on normal, we stuck with a single-add tank strat, fixed the issue with p3 timers, had a bunch of horrible sub 1% wipes monday night with healers/shamans DCing every attempt, then 3 shot him today with an 8:06 kill :o Apparently the key to not wiping all night is to do heroic mode first, before our healers start chain DCing.

Anub tank flasked NR and took less leeching damage than melee damage, add tank didn't and took nearly twice the damage from leeching as from all other sources through the fight combined - I'm guessing we were keeping him topped off between waves, but we weren't really killing adds quickly enough to let him drop low anyway - AoE dps really seems to slack off a bit into P3 (for no good reason).

The weekly counter achievement seems a bit silly, we basically spent something like 133 attempts learning him, but since we got the kill today instead of yesterday we get the achievement for killing him "with 45 or more attempts remaining". The horde guild on the server that actually killed him 2 weeks ago don't have that yet, and some 'tards are all giddy now because some dumb tracking sites rate us higher just because of the achievement.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Aubade » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:57 pm

Treck wrote:My unhittable gear is basicly 3.7k buffed BV with 101,7% unhittability fully buffed.
Were doing good, and i feel like i wanna stick to the 1addtank strat, but would it be safer going with 2?
Reason we wiped in P3 was actually the Anubtank dying xD
But we had a few random deaths from me that shouldnt happen, ppl are doing insanity runs in 25man, so is there a way to avoid those random spikes? or just go with 2 addtanks?
Our Dps is fine to let a dps go tanking for it since were way ahead before the 3rd burrow.


Well in my opinion the one tank strat isn't stable. There's a chance one or two gets behind you and you're done, there's a chance you lose aggro trying to take all 4 at once, or there's a chance you miss a strike (alot easier to miss with 4 adds!)
The two tank strat is extremely reliable and just easier in my opinion. I pick up my first add with exo, target the other and use HoR. The extra healing is negligible and with good raid dps you'll get through it just fine.

It's also alot easier to get interrupts etc. TBH Since we've gotten insanity, if we wipe at all it's to other fights. we've 1 shot anub 4-5 weeks in a row, it's an extremely repeatable fight once you get a strat that works for your guild, and most of the successful ones (Not all, ensidia still single-tanks it.) have been with 2 tanks.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Joanadark » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:32 am

Anub tank flasked NR and took less leeching damage than melee damage, add tank didn't and took nearly twice the damage from leeching as from all other sources through the fight combined - I'm guessing we were keeping him topped off between waves, but we weren't really killing adds quickly enough to let him drop low anyway - AoE dps really seems to slack off a bit into P3 (for no good reason).


The reason why it seems like ae dps is higher in p1 than in p3 isnt because people are slacking off, its because every p1 your trinket ICDs are fresh, all your cooldowns are up, and you have an entire burrow phase afterwards to let all that reset again for the next p1. In p3, all the cooldowns get spaced out with no chance for them all to reset, so it seems like ae is lower.

The weekly counter achievement seems a bit silly, we basically spent something like 133 attempts learning him, but since we got the kill today instead of yesterday we get the achievement for killing him "with 45 or more attempts remaining". The horde guild on the server that actually killed him 2 weeks ago don't have that yet, and some 'tards are all giddy now because some dumb tracking sites rate us higher just because of the achievement.


I agree. the tracking sites dont count the initial kill date for nearly what they really should.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby fafhrd » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:41 am

We should totally go do earth wind and fire so we can shoot ahead of like 200 Insanity guilds just for having Mad Skill+EWF :D
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Aubade » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:56 am

They track EWF but it isn't worth any points =P check it
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby gomashon » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:57 am

Despite a lot of arguing back and forth about it and experimenting with it on normal, we stuck with a single-add tank strat, fixed the issue with p3 timers, had a bunch of horrible sub 1% wipes monday night with healers/shamans DCing every attempt, then 3 shot him today with an 8:06 kill


What did you do with the "issue with p3 timers" ?
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Xequecal » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:19 am

Aubade wrote:
Treck wrote:My unhittable gear is basicly 3.7k buffed BV with 101,7% unhittability fully buffed.
Were doing good, and i feel like i wanna stick to the 1addtank strat, but would it be safer going with 2?
Reason we wiped in P3 was actually the Anubtank dying xD
But we had a few random deaths from me that shouldnt happen, ppl are doing insanity runs in 25man, so is there a way to avoid those random spikes? or just go with 2 addtanks?
Our Dps is fine to let a dps go tanking for it since were way ahead before the 3rd burrow.


Well in my opinion the one tank strat isn't stable. There's a chance one or two gets behind you and you're done, there's a chance you lose aggro trying to take all 4 at once, or there's a chance you miss a strike (alot easier to miss with 4 adds!)
The two tank strat is extremely reliable and just easier in my opinion. I pick up my first add with exo, target the other and use HoR. The extra healing is negligible and with good raid dps you'll get through it just fine.

It's also alot easier to get interrupts etc. TBH Since we've gotten insanity, if we wipe at all it's to other fights. we've 1 shot anub 4-5 weeks in a row, it's an extremely repeatable fight once you get a strat that works for your guild, and most of the successful ones (Not all, ensidia still single-tanks it.) have been with 2 tanks.


The two-tank strat has plenty of fuckup opportunities that the one-tank strat doesn't.

1. The initial two permafrosts have to be correctly placed. With one tank, it doesn't matter where the one ice you're dropping lands, you can just move Anub over there. When you're doing two tanks, you need to get two down, correctly spaced with Anub in between them. If you're more than slightly off they won't be in AoE range and you'll wipe.

2. Your two tanks have to keep the adds in AE range of each other and the boss, but not in frenzy range of each other. Slightly too far over to the left or right is a fast death, slightly not far enough and two of them won't die. The 80% slow also massively punishes mistakes. We had one attempt where the tank got an add too close and managed to hit Shield Wall, but was not able to move it out of range before Shield Wall ran out.

3. You have no leeway for fuckups on the kite phase. Every ice is used, you don't have a spare one. The two-ice positioning also takes up a lot more horizontal space in the room, making it much easier for a DPS to accidentally kite the spikes across your initial ice positioning by accident and cause a wipe.

The one-tank strat lets you delegate all the hard parts of the fight to literally five people: the add tank, the two people interrupting shadow strike, and the two healers with 2 assigned penetrating cold icons. Arcane Bombs are 99% reliable at preventing any Shadow Strikes from happening at all with the one-tank strat. Everyone else can pretty much just phone their performance in and you'll be fine.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby deigo » Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:38 am

Anyone try using 2 add tanks on one ice patch? I know they still get the 800% buff as opposed to the.... what 400% or something? Our issue WAS the add tank dying. We were using a warr add tank. I was on boss cause his block gear was a little more complete then mine. So if he didnt get gibed or an add pulled off of him we never missed a SS cast (probably cause we worked one tank for quite a while). So we figured lets lower his incoming damage and throw another add tank with him (i.e. me). Sad thing is before p3 (where we fall apart) recount has me taking about 100% to 150% more damage then him. I assume this is cause of gear and warrs ability to crit block. But in my block gear im sitting about .2% under the unhittable cap after raid buffs and about 3,400 bv. Is being .2% under really hurting me to the point where i'd be taking that much more damage then him?

But here are the question u need to ask ur self cause every guild is different and has different issues with this fight.

1) Is the add tank dying due to spike damage cause us to wipe?(single tank strat)

2) Are we missing SS kicks due to 800% haste buff?

3)Are adds getting pulled off the add tank and/or are all 4 getting properly MD'd or picked up?(single tank strat)

These are the most common issues i see on these forums, mostly with the single tank strat. With the 2 add tank strat on 2 ice patches there can be more issues but i can't think of any tank related issues that cant be said about the single tank strat as well. "Ice patches were not close enough together", is not a tank issue that a positioning issue. But if u are having issues with question 1 and 3 but NOT 2 try out 2 add tanks on one ice patch. It should negate having any ice patch positioning issues and help lower spike tank damage (hopefully). Also a good strat to try out if ur tank (like me) disenchanted all their old BR/BV gear and have some holes in their block set.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby fafhrd » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:17 am

Aubade wrote:They track EWF but it isn't worth any points =P check it


It depends on the site I think. GuildDox is more sensible, but wowprogress at least seems to list having madskill+ewf higher than just insanity.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Wrathy » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:11 am

Deigo wrote:Anyone try using 2 add tanks on one ice patch? I know they still get the 800% buff as opposed to the.... what 400% or something? Our issue WAS the add tank dying. We were using a warr add tank. I was on boss cause his block gear was a little more complete then mine. So if he didnt get gibed or an add pulled off of him we never missed a SS cast (probably cause we worked one tank for quite a while). So we figured lets lower his incoming damage and throw another add tank with him (i.e. me). Sad thing is before p3 (where we fall apart) recount has me taking about 100% to 150% more damage then him. I assume this is cause of gear and warrs ability to crit block. But in my block gear im sitting about .2% under the unhittable cap after raid buffs and about 3,400 bv. Is being .2% under really hurting me to the point where i'd be taking that much more damage then him?


We use the two add tanks on the same patch method. While it creates a bit more damage on tanks, it does offer more control. Both of our add tanks have unhittable sets, and we cover the two interrupts ourselves as a result, aka shockwave then holy wrath.

I am a full percent below the unhittable mark and have not noticed any problems with survival. The biggest issue with this strat is controlling the add tank damage in P3. Lava talisman, bubble wall, and ironshield potions are a must for this phase. I usually eat the first set of adds at sub 30% with out a cooldown and save my cds for the next two waves. We have not gotten the kill yet, but we are getting dangerously close.

As for the block value. I dropped to 1% below unhittable so i could pick up about 300 more block value (Bringing me up to 4100 buffed), and I noticed that i decreased the damage that I took considerably. The damage difference that you are seeing between your warrior and you is critical block. I had the same concerns when we started our attempts, and I went back over the parse and noticed that there were a few glaring differences.

Critical block is completely overpowered. our warrior was fully blocking about 60% more of the incoming damage. Of the damage we took, i was mitigating considerably more, however since he fully blocked so many of them, he took less damage overall. I broke down the specifics here if you are interested in more.
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Re: [25 Heroic] Anub'arak

Postby Worldie » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:12 am

Xequecal wrote:
Joanadark wrote:If you want to reduce the damage intake and spike on your anub tank, they should gear for Armor, not stam.


Does armor work on Frost Slash at all? The people on EJ seem to think not.

Froststrike damage appear to inflict damage which is either Physical or Frost depending on which one would hurt more.
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