[Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Levantine » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:28 pm

I have a new found respect for horde paladins after the Ret champion single handedly wiped our raid for an entire night on ToC25 NORMAL. /wrists At least the officers FINALLY started to listen to a couple of us when we said the Paladin needs to die very fast.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby amh » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:00 pm

Levantine wrote:I have a new found respect for horde paladins after the Ret champion single handedly wiped our raid for an entire night on ToC25 NORMAL. /wrists At least the officers FINALLY started to listen to a couple of us when we said the Paladin needs to die very fast.


Slap a DK on him, and have someone dedicated to mass dispell stuff (hand of freedom, bubble)? He's extremely easy to control.
I used to play a paladin.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Worldie » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:40 pm

I'm going to update the guide today after i wake up with more informations and some help for heroic killing.

It isn't really that hard, it's a matter of skill for once. Certain setups are ofc easier than others.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Levantine » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:07 pm

amh wrote:
Levantine wrote:I have a new found respect for horde paladins after the Ret champion single handedly wiped our raid for an entire night on ToC25 NORMAL. /wrists At least the officers FINALLY started to listen to a couple of us when we said the Paladin needs to die very fast.


Slap a DK on him, and have someone dedicated to mass dispell stuff (hand of freedom, bubble)? He's extremely easy to control.


You'd think so, but most of my guild is retarded. I'm already keeping the Rogue and Death Knight busy, and am the only active Death Knight at the moment who isn't some kinda of mentally defective.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:04 pm

It is insane how comp dependent this fight is.

One Weekend ago we had: Resto Drood, Rest Sham, Lock, Warrior, Shadow Priest and Retadin - we wiped for 3 hours then we gave up.

This weekend: Healy Priest, Healadin, Mage, Boom, Warrior and Enh Shammy - we two-shotted it.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Joanadark » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:15 pm

Another tactic you can do if your raid is bad at CC is simply spam debuffs on their entire team. All the DKs Pestilence, all the rogues FoK poisons, and all the DoT classes DOT everything.
The healers will be so busy cleansing all the debuffs that they will barely ever heal and it is extremely easy to zerg down multiple targets in a row.
Arkham's Razor: a theory which states the simplest explaination tends to lead to Cthulu.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Belloc » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:49 pm

We finally got a decent group together and cleared 10-man heroic. I improved upon the previous strategy that we had been using where we have one of our DPS on a pet.

Here's what I found out: If you dps a pet, the healers will focus most/all of their heals on the pet. We literally did not touch the healers at all and the kill target didn't receive any noticeable healing. Once the kill target reaches low health, however, the healers will switch to it. Personally, I think that healers will heal whoever has the lowest health number, assuming they are not max health. So, since pets have about 180k health, as opposed to the 600k of the plate dps... a single dps on the pet will keep them under max and keep all heals focused on them until the other mob reaches that point.

So, when the kill target hit 50-80k health, we had our warlock banish the tree, I switched off of the pet, hit avenging wrath, and the kill target died before the single remaining healer had any chance of putting a dent in the kill target.

I did this with every kill target: Me dpsing pet, everyone else on kill target, banish druid and switch to kill target when kill target reaches 20% health or so. Not having to put interrupts on healers means that kill targets die extremely quickly. Also, we didn't kill the healers until last, using this strategy, meaning survivability went up quickly.

Try it on your normal mode kills just to get a feel for it. It probably works on 25, too, but you have to put more than one DPS on the pet. A single priest PW: Shield on 25 will absorb more than you can burn.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Sophotrates » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:12 pm

Toc10 normal: Third try on this (in 3 weeks), third fail.

Our setup: 3 paladins (one of each type, yes it sucks), rogue, warlock, prot warrior, blood dk, mage, holy priest and resto druid.
Their setup: Healerpriest, healer shaman, retri pally, rogue, warlock and moonkin.

Our best shot was priest down, shaman at 30% but in all the other tries (15+) we didn't even get the priest down.

This fight is so luck based, sometimes I (prot pally) can kite the rogue really good, then lose him for 5 sec where he, together with retri, instakills the lock or mage. Other tries I got stunned from the very start and the mage is dead before he can even casts a single spell.

I know, with a shaman for BL or a hunter with traps we would've down him easely (priest was always at 20% and then got healed) but, being a small guild, we have to raid with what we've got.

I hate this so hard, I so want to down the twins and anub :(
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Joanadark » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:22 pm

I would reccomend not trying to go after the second healer if the first healer is down. It's really unnecessary, and at that point it's just better to start knocking off their DPS one by one. What is the healer going to do after that? heal you to death?

Against the comp you faced I would reccomend the kill order as Priest>Rogue>Ret>Shaman>Moonkin>Warlock
Assign your prot warrior to control the ret paladin, using his stuns, hamstring, silences, and disarming him once he goes taunt immune. If he gets bloodlust, wings, or hand of freedom he can shield slam those buffs off.
Put your DK on the rogue and have him spam Chains of Ice and put diseases up on him, and Deathgrip him away from anyone he tries to switch to.
Put yourself the prot pally on their resto shaman, stopping his casts with your stuns and silences, and most importantly killing every totem he drops.
Your Holy Paladin should be primarily cleansing every single debuff that goes up on his raid frames, and only spot healing if there is nothing to cleanse. All the paladins should watch for aggro warnings on the clothies' raid frames and be ready to BoP.
Your ret, rogue, warlock, and mage should all be your DPS team and zerg down targets together one at a time. If you mage feels like being pro he can sheep something or focus-interrupt something, but it shouldnt be necessary. Open up with the kill target in a full HoJ and burn hard.
Arkham's Razor: a theory which states the simplest explaination tends to lead to Cthulu.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Meyrinn » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:57 am

Sophotrates wrote:Toc10 normal: Third try on this (in 3 weeks), third fail.

Our setup: 3 paladins (one of each type, yes it sucks), rogue, warlock, prot warrior, blood dk, mage, holy priest and resto druid.
Their setup: Healerpriest, healer shaman, retri pally, rogue, warlock and moonkin.

Our best shot was priest down, shaman at 30% but in all the other tries (15+) we didn't even get the priest down.

This fight is so luck based, sometimes I (prot pally) can kite the rogue really good, then lose him for 5 sec where he, together with retri, instakills the lock or mage. Other tries I got stunned from the very start and the mage is dead before he can even casts a single spell.

I know, with a shaman for BL or a hunter with traps we would've down him easely (priest was always at 20% and then got healed) but, being a small guild, we have to raid with what we've got.

I hate this so hard, I so want to down the twins and anub :(


You can taunt in normal. Have the two tanks use their taunts and stuns on the Rogue and Ret Paladin. The Warrior can charge so he's better on the Rogue due to shadowstep. The Warrior can also use disarm.

Your Rogue can replace the snaring totem/traps by using FoK + Crippling Poison.

The melee champs need to be snared at all times. The tanks on them should call out the target if they get away and that person should kite the mob until the tank can taunt it back.

I'd recommend killing the Shaman Healer first as his totems are a large buff to them.

Your Resto Druid should be in caster form to use Cyclones, and the Warlock should fear targets every now and then. The Warlock should also be using his Felhunter on one of the caster DPS champs. Your Resto Druid should also use cat form and sprint to run away if he gets focused.

Also, the pets appear to be tankable. I usually tank the pets and they never veer off me.

The 3 Paladins should also be cleansing as much as possible.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Dantriges » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:40 pm

Hero 10 Faction Champs

Resto Schaman
Priest

Warlock
Retri Paladin
Rogue
Boomkin

Our setup
Disci Priest
Resto Schaman
Paladin or tree
Warlock
Mage
Me the lolret
Shadow Priest
Rogue perhaps (at least I try to get one)
Hunter (off warri has exams)
Feral

So far we had best results killing discipline then the rogue. Our rogue keeping the shaman from castng

Has someone any ideas?
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Worldie » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:06 am

If you can manage 2 proper interrupts, keep both healers under CC then zerg the rogue first then the ret pala, then you win.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Dantriges » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:41 pm

There was the tip that you shouldn´t spend too much dps on cc. What would the recomendation how much you can afford to spend on CC and how much dps do you need.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Worldie » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:23 pm

The only CCs worth using are:
1) Rogues (or other interrupters) on healers
2) Warlock on Resto Druid
3) Tank (or DK for heroic) on Rogue / Warrior / Enha Shaman
Rest is a waste of time.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Thornir » Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:03 pm

ToC10, last night.

Comp was:
Holy Pally
Resto Shaman
Mage
Hunter
Warrior
Death Knight

Raid Comp:
Me(tank)
'nother Pallytank
Mage
2 Resto Shammys
Disc Priest
Rogue
Lock
Ret Pally
Hunter

We had SO many problems with this. Most of the time the group would be half dead by the time the first went down.

We tried several versions of Sham/Warr/Pally CC and killing, nothing worked. If didn't focus the Paladin, he BoFed the people right out of the CC, even if he never threw a heal (rogue was on him). If we didn't focus the Warr or DK, they seem to double-team together, had one healer ganked before my GCD was up from SSing someone. Shaman was annoying because Heroism kicked our ASS. Hunter picked off people just as a healer was focused by something else. Mage's Frost Nova was really bad to deal with, dispel doesn't seem to work, and it helped the Warr+DK a lot. I was so busy taunting the two (I was the only plate-wearer, othe tank went dps) that i could only get off a few dispels, and the only thing really dispellable in that fight is poly and the diseases. Also I could get people to SPREAD THE **** OUT, and Bladestorm was a garunteed wipe.

/whimper
/keyboardmeetface
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