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[Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Salamandra » Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:15 am

This won't work after 3.2.2, but you can have 1/2 rogues FoK spam so that eveyrone can completely ignore the healers the entire time. On 25-man heroic the kill took ~10 minutes, I believe the rogues had about 300 interrupts each and the next person had 6.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:55 pm

Haven't done ToC25 in Heroic mode - as our dps is low to attempt it, but ToC25 FC is so easy compared to ToC10 FC.

This week's attempt at ToC10 was utter fail for 3 straight hours - (compared to one-shot in ToC25), this fight left a bad taste on just about all of us, several of 'em claiming they wanted to punch babies.

I dont have enough holy gear to do prot heals, my dps is of the loladin class -- I think I'll bring my DK alt.

Ironically, in ToC25 Normal, I feel like I am more useful with my DP+DS, AS and my taunts, but for some reason no matter what I try, I just don't feel good enough for ToC10.

I don't care what some people say in the World of Warcraft forums, but this fight, as Psiven put it, can go DIAF.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby ydraw » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:12 pm

It's not so bad in non-heroic mode, because you can taunt the mobs. You get 9 seconds of taunt, followed by a hammer of justice for 6 seconds and some judgement of justice procs. You can easily keep 1 of the melee locked down for the entire fight with rotation taunts and stuns.

I specced for Imp. Hammer Of Justice especially for this fight.

On heroic though, I can see that prot pallies are going to be basically useless.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Racerover » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:09 pm

ydraw wrote:On heroic though, I can see that prot pallies are going to be basically useless.


I basically am spamming my cleanse macro the entire fight. It's almost best if I spec holy to be able to maintain my mana pool while doing this. So you're basically right. Outside of our avenger's shield and a 40s HoJ, we're useless.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Invisusira » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:48 pm

This fight is really starting to piss me off. The RNG of it basically screws us out of our Insane chest - even our Mad Skill chest - every week in 10 man.
Our comp isn't very CC heavy, but with all of Blizzard's "bring the player not the class" preaching, we didn't really think it would be an issue.

Prot pally (me, but as ret for this fight)
Ret pally
Feral druid
Resto/Boomkin druid
Holy priest
Disc priest
Rogue
Fury warrior
Hunter
Enhance shammy

It doesn't seem to matter what their makeup is, we basically just have to get lucky and kill enough of them before they kill us. Is it our melee-heavy comp that's giving us issues? Any suggestions?
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:41 pm

I'd be surprised if it was melee heavy that was causing the problems. We ran into issues when we only had one melee (rogue) and had to swap out a lock for warrior. But... you've got enough plate wearers that I wouldn't think it would be a problem.

I stay tank for this fight and just taunt everything whenever my taunts come off cd. Yeah, they won't stay on you long, but sometimes it's enough of a reprieve for a clothie to get away.

To be perfectly honest... we really just brute force the fight (on normal mind you, I've yet to try the heroic version of it). And only once has that not worked (which is when we switched out the lock for the warrior). Nothing gets cced, we gather everything up in the center and just go to town. It's an all out brawl. If we get the holy paladin though, I usually keep the rogue on them to keep them silenced/kicked/whatever the entire fight. Other than that... we just burn them down one by one.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby fafhrd » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:02 pm

finally got to try this on 25 heroic today, didn't really seem much different from 25 regular :o

Everything died a lot slower, and we wasted a good 4 attempts trying to kill an enhancement shaman first for some reason, before we finally convinced people to try to kill a healer first, at which point we killed it on the first pull with 3 deaths during the fight.

14 minute fight though, and I hear with different comps it can be 20 minutes plus :o

On 10 man Invis, we lose our tribute to insanity every week on anub :/
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Joanadark » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:31 am

This fight is really starting to piss me off. The RNG of it basically screws us out of our Insane chest - even our Mad Skill chest - every week in 10 man.
Our comp isn't very CC heavy, but with all of Blizzard's "bring the player not the class" preaching, we didn't really think it would be an issue.

Prot pally (me, but as ret for this fight)
Ret pally
Feral druid
Resto/Boomkin druid
Holy priest
Disc priest
Rogue
Fury warrior
Hunter
Enhance shammy

It doesn't seem to matter what their makeup is, we basically just have to get lucky and kill enough of them before they kill us. Is it our melee-heavy comp that's giving us issues? Any suggestions?


An easy mistake to make on this fight is splitting off so many of your DPSers to doing CC on different targets that your primary target takes forever to die. Particularly with a melee heavy raid, you are more durable and can afford a certain element of "just zerg the priest" as long as theres at least some basic control going on. Theres a reason cleave comps with little subtlety work in arena.

In 25 man this week we got probably the most horrible set of opponants to face possible, and we actually wasted a couple wipes on this fight, to our great frustration. We faced Rogue, Warrior, DK, Enhancement Shaman, Disc Priest, Holy Paladin, Resto Druid, Warlock, Hunter. This was a nightmare to face, since any one of the FOUR melee could insta-gib anyone, and there simply were not enough disarms to go around. We'd start on the priest with this elaborate CC plan and what inevitably happened is it took forever and a day for the priest to die and eventually one of the melee would get loose and then rape half the raid.

What brought us success was throwing all the detailed cc assignments out the window, except for some basic controls like a warlock on the druid and a disarmer on each melee, and zerged down the priest and the rogue during heroism and the enhancement shaman shortly after. By that point it was merely a case of the half of the raid still alive easily finishing off the rest of the team one by one. I brought in our feral druid for an extra cyclone and roots, and all our plate and melee dps and hunters. Several of us went actual pvp specs and the squishy people put on freya gear to prevent unhealable one-shots.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Treck » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:04 am

Joanadark wrote:In 25 man this week we got probably the most horrible set of opponants to face possible, and we actually wasted a couple wipes on this fight, to our great frustration. We faced Rogue, Warrior, DK, Enhancement Shaman, Disc Priest, Holy Paladin, Resto Druid, Warlock, Hunter.

We had this exact setup for 2 weeks now :S spent about 15wipes on it last week, and damn i hate that encounter.
Just feels a lot random cuz when we get it done, for some reason the meele just stays on the 2warrior tanks we have, and they stay on them untill we actually start dpsing them, but this only happends sometimes :S
Feels so damn random i just hate it when we get to that fight.
If your really going for 0wipes, i guess you can softreset the instance and hope for an "easier" combination?
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:15 am

Treck wrote:If your really going for 0wipes, i guess you can softreset the instance and hope for an "easier" combination?


Does that actually work? I thought once they dropped, you were stuck with that group until you downed them.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Treck » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:06 am

It seems a soft reset randoms out a new group, as we saw last week when we just had a few tries on them, and then went back the day after and got a slightly other group.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby fafhrd » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:43 am

Joanadark wrote:In 25 man this week we got probably the most horrible set of opponants to face possible, and we actually wasted a couple wipes on this fight, to our great frustration. We faced Rogue, Warrior, DK, Enhancement Shaman, Disc Priest, Holy Paladin, Resto Druid, Warlock, Hunter.

[/quote]

Hey, we had that exact setup for our first kill this week, except we also had the shadow priest (I think you missed a mob unless you somehow got only 9).

We had I think ~2.5 DKS keeping the warrior out of the raid, and 1 DK+protwarrior camping the rogue. Once again I didn't get to do anything interesting other than spamming frost traps and tranq shots :(

Killed the shaman 2nd, everything is so much nicer without the bloody totems all over the place.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Belloc » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:06 pm

Invisusira wrote:This fight is really starting to piss me off. The RNG of it basically screws us out of our Insane chest - even our Mad Skill chest - every week in 10 man.
Our comp isn't very CC heavy, but with all of Blizzard's "bring the player not the class" preaching, we didn't really think it would be an issue.

Prot pally (me, but as ret for this fight)
Ret pally
Feral druid
Resto/Boomkin druid
Holy priest
Disc priest
Rogue
Fury warrior
Hunter
Enhance shammy

It doesn't seem to matter what their makeup is, we basically just have to get lucky and kill enough of them before they kill us. Is it our melee-heavy comp that's giving us issues? Any suggestions?


Have one of your players DPSing a pet so that the healers lolfocus on healing it instead of the kill target. Also ensure that this player doesn't get CC'd, otherwise the pet will be fully healed for too long, causing the kill target to receive heals.

After the pull, have your warrior charge in and aoe fear which may or may not cause the mobs to use their trinkets. Rogue uses Fan of Knives to spread around a crippling poison. Priests fear any mobs that approach them (otherwise, run). Hunter can use his sleep sting and various traps to CC targets if they get away from the rogue aoe, especially if the rogue is slowing everything and the aoe fear caused them to use their trinkets.

And, above all else, if a melee mob targets a player, even a plate dps, that player needs to run.


That is the approach I am going to try when we go back in there. I'm also going to add a disarm/dismantle rotation to the first kill target, assuming it's the warrior. I want it dead before it has a chance to whirlwind us to death.

note: Everything above is somewhat theorycraft, aside from the pet DPS trick. That one appeared to work perfectly when we tried it.

edit: Oh, and have the boomkin using cyclone on targets. Preferably melee targets, but anything that is a danger is worth it.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Worldie » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:58 am

I must agree that using too much CC, expecially in 10 men, is wrong. Generally you should assign just the basic CC, mainly someone to annoy the healers (warlock or rogues) and possibly one DK or prot warrior on the warrior and/or rogue. There's no main poing in having 9 people out of 10 CCing and only one DPS on the focus target.
Many times the best strategy is having the 2 healers annoyed with something, and then zerg down the most dangerous DPS. That's what works for us in heroic and up to now always been a oneshot (except a 3shot in 25 men).
Another thing i found important in 10 men is, if you have a balanced raid, aka, non full melee, to NOT send melees on the other melees since they might randomly turn on the rogues and oneshot them. Rather send melees on casters and casters on melees.
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Re: [Faction Champions] A guide to this encounter

Postby Wrathy » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:03 am

I'm still a bit puzzled about this fight in heroic, because our clothies were getting one shot all over the place, we had to pair down a ton of CC to even get the first target down with BL/Heroism at the pull and constant interrupts on the other two healers. We got unlucky with the group composition, the rouge, warrior, ret pally, and dk were creating havoc for our survival.

We ended up giving up after about 20 attempts.
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